RPP+ Free Sample: Hanging Out with Margaret Agard and David Pasqualone | E103

“What is RPP+?”

RPP+, aka Hanging Out with David Pasqualone & Friends, is the brand new subscription-based podcast we’ve been busy creating for you over the last year and a half. It features new guests, as well as continues the great conversations that you’ve enjoyed from our Remarkable People Podcast (RPP) interviews the last 4 years.  All while bringing you valuable additional content, powerful life insights, and even more inspiration, focus, and clarity.

Hanging Out with David Pasqualone & Friends also features guests that have not previously appeared on RPP, but could very well have with their remarkable stories.  Like RPP, RPP+ episodes are timeless and designed to not only bring you more personal development content, but more professional based content as well that you can start applying to your life today and bettering your position.

To get started, Check Out this Free RPP+ Sample Episode Now, share it with your friends, and please let me know what you think.

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Best yet? 100% of every dollar goes to supporting the podcast and reaching more people with this Remarkable content. To help you grow, and Glorify God.😇

Have a Remarkable Day, can’t wait to hang out with you soon, and see you at the top my friend! 💪🏼

Ascending Together,
David Pasqualone

GUEST BIO:

Margaret Agard is the award-winning author of the In His Footsteps memoirs, a, Christian mystic, and former executive in the high tech industry. She is also a wife and the mother of eight children. Tonight she shares her simple – but not easy – method for both taming her to-do list and living a life of purpose and joy.

SHOW NOTES:

• Website: https://inhisfootsteps.com
• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/InHisFootstepsPage
• Twitter: https://twit

Transcript

RPP+ Free Sample! Hanging Out with Margaret Agard and David Pasqualone | E103 

Hello, friends. I'm David Pasqualone and welcome to this new podcast Hanging out with David Pasqualone. Friends. This podcast is all about continuing the great conversations on our show where our guests come back and bring you additional value to better your life. We also have guests you've never heard of the haven't been on our show yet, or maybe you have heard of them.

They're going to bring you more specific professional content that you can apply today and again, better your life. So check out this episode now, share it with your friends, and I can't wait to start hanging out with you and our guests. 

 Hey friend, are you ready to hang out? Me too. This week we have Margaret Agard on the show. Margaret has had a cool and crazy [00:01:00] life. She had, I. Eight children with a man to find out that he was asexual or homosexual. She was showing her son about dating apps in the nineties when you couldn't even upload a picture, and she meets her second husband and is still married 25 years later.

She talks about how she hears God. How we can too, and a whole bunch more in this episode of hanging out with David Pasal and friends, before you get into the episode though, I just wanna say whether you're a Baptist or a Mormon or a Catholic or a Muslim or agnostic, all truth. Is real, it's consistent. It comes from God.

It can be found within the pages of the Bible. So even though Margaret and I come from two different quote unquote religions, the commonality we have is a relationship with God. So whether you're in Egypt right now, [00:02:00] If you're in Pakistan, if you're in Australia, if you're in the United States, God is everywhere.

And our relationship with him is what matters. When we pray, we talk to God through His Holy Spirit, through nature, through reading, through so many sources, he speaks to us. And in this episode, Margaret and I. Talk about listening and hearing God's voice and knowing what to follow. So enjoy this episode.

If you have any questions, reach out to Margaret. I, we love you, hope you grow from it. Share it with your friends and family, and basically let's get going. Enjoy.

David Pasqualone: Hey Margaret. How are you 

Margaret Agard: today? I'm good. I'm looking forward to this, David. 

David Pasqualone: Oh, me too, me too. You and I were just talking and then seconds ago I was telling our Remarkable community about you and they are pumped to hear your story and to get the knowledge that God used in your life so they can use [00:03:00] it in theirs.

So like all our podcasts we're go through, past, present, and then the future. Where's Margaret and where she heading? But let's start off with your story in childhood. Where were you born? What was your upbringing like? Because as we all know, our formative years form us and it's what God uses, good, bad, or ugly to make us the person we are today.

So where did Margaret start? 

Margaret Agard: I was born at Washington DC to parents who married during World War right after World Wari. So born in 1950. I'm clicking my ring. Let me put this over here. And I, I would say I grew up, people don't even have these books anymore, but we had Dick and Jane books growing up and I grew up in a Dick and Jane neighborhood.

With my grandparents a block away and my great grandparents two blocks away, and we went to the church across the street in a small town called Cottage City, Maryland. That actually still [00:04:00] exists and those houses are still there. Amazing. Since it's right outside DC you'd think they'd be big apartment buildings, but they're not.

It's awesome. And yeah, and I, you know, I learned all the Christian. You know, Jesus loves me. This, I know. I, that prayer I hate. Now I lay me down to sleep. If I should die before I wake, I'm like, no, no, no. I don't wanna think about that. 

David Pasqualone: Yeah, no, you're actually right. Do you ever think about, for our listeners all around the world, actually, this would be a great community exercise.

Send us the nonsensical, crazy, scary nursery rhyme. Shoot me an email at me at david Pasqualone dot com because if you're a think you've got London Bridges falling down now I leave me down to sleep. You know, it's like, yeah. If I die before I wake, you know, if I'm in a tree, I might fall rockabye baby.

It's like, why the hell we're traumatizing our children? What is wrong with you people? No, you no wonder why half the people are depressing on anxiety medicine. Right. We No, I'm just kidding. But I always did wonder, even as a [00:05:00] kid, why are all these stories scary? So anyways, if you know, as a listener, send us the send, Margaret and I, the answer.

Margaret Agard: Okay. So I you know, I, I don't remember ever doubting Jesus. I never believed in Santa Claus, so I hope I'm not upsetting people, but I, even as a three and four year old thought, that's, there's nothing there. But Jesus never doubted. And actually at one point in my life I thought, what if I never doubted?

What if I never asked God? And, and there are people who won't even ask about Christian or Jesus 'cause they think they already know, right? And I thought, well, maybe I'm being one of those people. And so at one point I did actually ask God should I believe in Jesus. It was interesting. But before we got to that point, what had happened is at one point in my life, I when I was six or seven, I can remember sitting in church and actually feeling as if God, Jesus [00:06:00] was right with me.

Like instead of learning about him, I felt him. I felt his presence and his love intelligence, just everything. And I would say I've probably spent the rest of my life seeking to always be in that presence and sometimes exceeding, sometimes not. 

David Pasqualone: So, and I know this is a very difficult question, but we have listeners from over a hundred countries, but actively in almost every episode, 60 plus.

So 60 plus countries are listening to this. Some understand what you're talking about, some don't. It's not about country, but it's about our relationship with God. But describe what God's presence feels like or is like, because some people have never experienced it and there's some people that are deceived by Satan and they experience things, but it's not the Holy Spirit.

It's an evil spirit. So talk about what it's like to experience the presence of God. 

Margaret Agard: Well, for me, and, and I, then I had. [00:07:00] Other experiences, but for me, there truly is that sense of peace and and awareness. And an awareness of an intelligence beyond my own, which I, so I've had some other experiences similar.

So like when I was in second grade, I can remember people could do this back then going on a field trip to a printing press place. And they gave us all little tiny bibles. It had, all I had in it was like Psalms and proverbs in the New Testament. And when I was upset, I would go to my bedroom and read that and feel very peaceful and calmed down.

And I would think even as an eight year old, that's how I felt. Yeah. I can remember. 

David Pasqualone: Yeah. No, and that's just it. So when you're with God and the Holy Spirit, the exactly what Margaret said, there's peace I. There's this comfort, there's this calmness. I mean, is that accurate? Is that how you describe it, Margaret?

Yes, yes. And I [00:08:00] remember same thing, I had this little Gideon bible that sat on my shelf, somebody, it was printed in like the fifties. It was distributed in the seventies. My uncle got it. He gave it to my grandmother in his sack one day when he was going to Vietnam. It ended up in the shelf, and it was always there when I was growing up.

And I colored on it and I still have it. And I just remember, even though chaos was in life, I always felt peace holding that Bible or looking at that Bible or trying to read it when you're little. So if you haven't experienced the peace of God, what Margaret's talking about, that's kinda what it feels like.

Now, if you're feeling stress or fear or anxiety, not the Holy Spirit, 

Margaret Agard: no. Although I, I have felt some. Later in life, so I can remember thinking about when did God answer my prayers? And I can remember in about fourth grade, we'd moved into a new neighborhood. And this is, you know, in the [00:09:00] late fifties, early sixties, it was probably 10.

And well, the, all the houses looked alike. That's how they did it, right? Put some roads in, built all these houses that looked like one skinny little tree in front. And I went on my bike riding around one day and I got lost, really lost. And I not like, hmm, but more like, oh my gosh, I don't have a clue how to get home.

I knew there was like a creek near our house and there was a bridge over it. And I kept trying to find that bridge. And this was back in the day where a lot of women stayed home. I probably could have knocked on someone's door and said, oh, here's my phone number and my address. But you know, it was the third or fourth grade.

I was like, yeah, not to, and that, and I can't remember. Finally at one point just kneeling down beside my bike and saying, I, I don't know how to get back to my house. I really need help. And this thought came. And kind of like point me to the next corner, said, go down to that corner and look to your right.

And so [00:10:00] I drove down to that corner and looked to my right and I saw the bridge, and so then I could get home. And I looked back at that experiences one of the times when I knew God heard me and was answering my prayers, and he knew things I didn't know clearly. If I could have found that bridge, I'd have found it by then.

So I, I grew up in a, in a, in a decent family, let's put it that way. Although looking back at it, I say sometimes anger was the language of love in our home. Like we, we fought a lot, but at some point we had, hmm. Well, eventually we ended up with 11 kids in that family, but the youngest one. Wow. 11 kids.

Yeah. But the youngest was born after I went to college, so I was like 18 when she was born, but the rest. 

David Pasqualone: Wow. Yeah. And what now, if you don't mind me asking, what nationality was your family like? What was her origins? We 

Margaret Agard: just we're, you know, typical. My dad was from New England and his, his line goes back to part of it, to the 16 hundreds and some of it to [00:11:00] Ireland, 

David Pasqualone: or where was 

Margaret Agard: he from?

Obviously the ones from 1,850 that came over were Irish, you know? Yeah. I'm 

David Pasqualone: joking around because all the guests we've had lately that have these massive families and they're all Irish Catholic. It's like, yeah. And that was the joke growing up. You see a bunch of kids are like, you're Irish Catholic 

Margaret Agard: or missionary.

Yeah, yeah. And then my grandmother on my mother's side was from the south, like from Alabama. That's what, so they met in dc, kind of in the center and Yeah. Anyway. 

David Pasqualone: Nice. Nice. So they had a, you had a big family. Big family. You guys got in a lot of arguments from New England. It's just a passionate, it's part of the conversation.

Yeah. So what was that like growing up? Like when you're forming and you're becoming the woman God made you to be, what were the lessons that you took away from that? 

Margaret Agard: Well, I was the oldest daughter. I had one older brother, but pretty much oldest daughter in that age was responsible. It's hard to like ever get over that.

I tell people I'm a recovering oldest daughter [00:12:00] because I've been tall since I was, probably since I was three or four. Like, watch your brother. Don't let him do this. You know, like that, right? Get me some diapers. Help make this bed. You know? It was just, I was responsible and people react to that. It's been, it's helped me in some ways because I can walk in a room and sit down and I've had people look at me and saying, are you the president?

And I'm like, no, I'm just visiting. So I became an executive in the high tech industry, one of the few women I think, because I just carry that sense of, she'll handle this. Yeah, that comes across. Yeah. But at the same time, it, it could destroy relationships because I feel like I need to control everybody and fix things and take care of stuff, right?

Like if you have an older sister, that's me. But I am apologizing. 

David Pasqualone: You were like the Tom Brady. You're sitting on the, you're like the second string quarterback. And then when it's your time to kick in later in your life, you just took in go [00:13:00] and you're in the greatest of all time. So talk about that. So you're in school and you're growing up and then you go to college and you're at college and you're parents are still having kids that literally could be your child.

So talk about where you're at at life at that point and where you're heading. 

Margaret Agard: So I I can remember coming home at probably Christmas and my parents had moved into a big old farmhouse built in the 17 hundreds on 40 acres in New Jersey. My dad had his own business, electrical subcontractor, and, and I had seven brothers.

So, so they had a place to run. That was the main thing. And I can remember just sitting there, you know, Christmas dinner or something, and my mom's drinking milk. And I was like, mom, you're drinking milk. Why are you drinking milk? You never drink milk unless you're pregnant. And the whole table went silent.

And I was like, uhoh, you're having another one. So yeah, it was, it was good. You know, I was old enough that I, I helped a lot. I, let me tell you, I [00:14:00] was never one of those people who was afraid to touch a baby. I. People are like, I've never held a baby. That was not me. Now 

David Pasqualone: did you feel like when you were growing up in a family that big, there's people listening now that have families just as big, they're actively a child in that family, or some of them are adults and they still hold little bit of like bitterness.

I know a lot of people grow up in big families. They feel neglected. Did you ever feel neglected or was it like, man, I love having all these people around me. 

Margaret Agard: I didn't feel neglected. I did. Was always searching for a quiet spot because I am more introverted. It won't come across on this, but I am more introverted.

I like lots of quiet and I, but who did feel it was some of the younger ones. And when I left for college, I recently have had some brothers who are in their fifties talk about how I abandoned them. No, I was just going to college. I was 17, 18, I, but they [00:15:00] saw me as a second mother and I left and they had a hard time with that.

David Pasqualone: So yeah, that's a different episode, different show. That's their story. But that's a real thing. Friends, family members, when you leave following God's will, a lot of times, even though you've done nothing wrong, they feel abandoned or betrayed and you're like, I didn't do anything wrong. But they perceive it that way.

So it's tough. It's tough. So were you guys able to reconcile by speaking about it? Still some of us 

Margaret Agard: that, I have one brother who still isn't, but he's, he's kind of pulled away from the whole family. I get it. But, and he's in his early fifties. There's still time. You know, I'm 72. We're all sorta You got plenty of time.

Yeah. Maybe if you're lucky you plenty of time. Could, 

David Pasqualone: could be a day, could be 20 years. So yeah, hopefully you guys get that time to have that fellowship on earth and then an eternity. So go on. So now where do you go to college or 

Margaret Agard: university? I went to Brigham Young University. It's the other big family church of Jesus [00:16:00] Christ.

So, okay, so I am thinking, so one thing had happened that was a, a painful experience at, at one point, and this is pretty standard, my father in his forties thought he was in love with another woman. He didn't violate his marriage covenants, like he didn't have a sexual relationship with her. But it was a heart relationship.

And he talked to my mother about a divorce and I was the only one who knew because if I asked my brothers and sisters or like, I don't think so, but because of the baby boomers we, I could only go to school half days. They, they couldn't get the schools built fast enough, so they had half of us go in the morning and half in the afternoon.

And so I was home while there was a lot of this trauma going on. And it felt to me, not that my father was thinking about leaving my mother, but that my father was thinking about leaving me because I was at that age 12, 13 where dad is like [00:17:00] the person. And it was a betrayal to me. They did not get divorced.

They worked it out. And I can remember asking to my, my mother later, how did you do that? And she said, I just started treating him the way I used to treat him when I trusted him and loved him and it, and it worked out. So I don't know, I tell you that because then I had to make a choice of who to marry, and I was afraid to marry the person I loved because I was afraid that when we hit our forties, He would do that, which is fairly common.

David Pasqualone: Yeah. Learned behavior and fears. You're, you're taking over the, what you saw doesn't necessarily mean it's truth, but you were fearful of that. So how did you get through that fear? How did you overcome that? 

Margaret Agard: Well probably far too late to help my children, but I I, I didn't actually, [00:18:00] I, I like to say, you know, I made the decision that if anyone walked out, it would be me.

So I kind of kept my heart closed. And second, I married someone who would never leave me for another woman because he's gay. Hmm. 

David Pasqualone: So did you know that at the time? You 

Margaret Agard: know, I was young. 19, 20, 19 or 20 years old like that, and I'm not sure. I knew he was gay and I'm not sure. He was a hundred percent sure he was gay.

And he's, he's finally decided he isn't so much gay as asexual, just no real interest. And so, but we still managed to have eight children. And the, and the issue didn't have anything to do in our marriage, ended with that that part of him. 

David Pasqualone: So it was almost like whether it was in the conscious or subconscious of your mind, you had like a self-fulfilling prophecy that your marriage would end in your forties, like your mom and dad's, or they made it work, but you were kind of worried about that.

So [00:19:00] let's go back. Brigham Young University, for those who don't know, that's a Mormon school. 

Margaret Agard: Richard Jesus Christ, right? Yeah. Church. Latter Day Saints Church of Jesus Christ. Latter Day Saints. 

David Pasqualone: Yes. Are you Mormon? Were you Mormon? What? 

Margaret Agard: What was the connection? Yes, I'm a member. The Church of Jesus Christ, Latterday Saints.

Yes. You were then. And you are now. I am. Okay. That's how I learned to hear God's voice. 'cause I was told over and over again you can hear his voice. And it is both your responsibility and your right. To learn and then to act on it. Like it's very learn to hear that still small voice and follow what he's telling you to do.

Okay, 

David Pasqualone: so now you go to the school and is there any between birth and your college years, is there anything significant that's setting up the story for your adulthood and today? Is there anything we were gonna cover in that area? 

Margaret Agard: I lemme see. What age range were you covering again? So, well like college, you're in college, I'm in college.

I'm trying to learn to hear his voice and I don't [00:20:00] actually learn to hear his voice. I mean, trying to know when I've heard his voice, if that makes sense. Like I can look back and say, remember that prayer you pray when you were on your bike and were lost. But some, I can remember someone in church one day saying, I know after I said my prayer, I'm just supposed to sit and wait for the answer.

And I thought, What, what is she talking about? And I, I was having a hard time figuring out which voice in my head was his, you know, from including the voice of saying, what voice is she talking about? I don't have voices in my head. And so I, when I was in my early twenties, I actually prayed this prayer.

Help me to learn to hear your voice. 'cause I don't know that I really know. And at that point is when I had three experiences in a week. And each time this thought kept coming to me the first time it happened, it was, [00:21:00] this thought is coming to me, invite this family to dinner. I was making chili and the pot kept getting bigger and bigger.

It was on a Monday, and I thought, I'm not gonna invite them to dinner. I just have 'em to dinner Friday night. Why would they'll think it's weird if I call 'em up and say, why don't you come Monday night too? So I'm not gonna do it. And I'm still working away. And the thought comes again, invite this family to dinner.

And I thought, no, I'm not gonna invite this family to dinner. 'cause tonight we have what we call family home evening. And we're gonna have a little, little time with our kids. We're gonna teach 'em about tithing and all the blessings of tithing from Malachi. And so as, and the thought comes again, invite this family to dinner.

And the third time I came, I thought, oh, maybe this is God. So I did invite them to dinner. And they came to dinner and, and I thought, well, I shouldn't. And the thought also came and invite them to stay for the lesson, the little family lesson. So they came, we had a little lesson on tithing. I don't think they would've told me this if we hadn't had it.[00:22:00] 

They, the father said to me, we wanted to start paying our tithing. Then we got behind and then I wanted to catch up and I, I don't usually recommend this. I'm like, just start where you are and go forward. If you're gonna pay Tyler, like, don't look back how much you might owe. But he said, we had gotten in a check 'cause he was a consultant and it was enough to catch up all our tithing a hundred percent, but then we wouldn't have any money for food.

So they thought about it like, I came on Friday, they're thinking about it Saturday, Sunday they go in, they pay their tithing. And before they left church on Sunday, they had had invitations to dinner every night that week except Monday. And I was the one who's like, invite these people to dinner. And so then I thought that for sure is God.

And a couple more things like that happened during that week. And it was always, I was being directed to do something that was an answer to someone's prayer. And as I heard that, I, I learned two things from that. One is [00:23:00] it, it is a still small, small voice. It is quiet and. It's nice that it will be persistent.

Like, it's like God's saying she hasn't figured it out yet. I'll tell her again until she gets that it's me. And so after that, it just became a regular habit for me to pay attention. And, and there's always questions around it was this God or is that my A D H D talking? You know, kinda like that. And I remember a woman saying, you know, I was thinking, should I do this?

Is this God? And then it was like, you know what? If it's a good thing, do it. Don't worry about it. And I, yeah, go 

David Pasqualone: ahead. No, and a lot of times we question ourselves and saying, wants to put doubt in, but if we just listen, you know, and there's that verse, it's actually a scary verse to me and it's a blessing and it's encouraging, but it's scary too.

And it talks about how my sheep hear my voice and they know me. He talks about that all through the New [00:24:00] Testament. Right. And that scares me. 'cause I always think to myself, what if God's talking and I don't even hear my own father's voice? Am I that far away from him that I don't recognize his voice?

But usually I find that it's seen trying to put doubt in me and you really can. So let's do this though, Margaret, we're skipping around and jumping, but you went from, I'm going to college to now I'm sitting down with my husband and kids and having people over what happened in between there personally and career?

Like where did you meet your husband? How did that all come together and your career? Had you gone into a career? Are you a full-time house like housewife at this point? 

Margaret Agard: What's going on? At that point, I was a, I was a full-time high school. What had happened is, I don't know, I was probably had three, three years of college in, and I had originally started out as an engineering major.

One of the few women, in fact, the only woman at the time and. I was in a class one day where I kept thinking, I don't feel like I [00:25:00] really fit here. I mean, I'm smart enough for engineering, but just not sure. And the professor had this formula on the board and he was saying, okay, now we engineers, this formula performs perfectly between this point and this other point.

But outside those two points, who knows what it's gonna do? It works for us 'cause we just use a temperature range and we're gonna stay within that range. It's gonna work fine. And I'm sitting there thinking, you know, why it acts weird outside those points. And then he said this you know what a mathematician would be thinking right now?

They'd be thinking, I wonder why it's acting like that. And bam changed my major that day. I thought I am in the wrong major. Nice. 

David Pasqualone: So, yeah. And that is true. I, I personally, I started off in mechanical engineering. Me too. And it drove me crazy calculus 'cause I didn't understand it. And all [00:26:00] my buddies, I'm still friends with this today.

We just had a reunion. A little, little couple of us got together and we're like, a dozen of us are talking still. But they would just be like, I don't care. I want to get it done. And they're all working for major corporations, doing fantastic. Right. I was obsessed with why does this work? So I almost feel calculus one, I got a C in calculus two.

I got a, I think a B in calculus three and a B in differential differential equations. So the harder it got, The better. 'cause I was wired different. My grades went up. And so for you, you're like, you saw it, you weren't wired that way and you saw the math connection, so you jumped into the math major.

That's awesome. That really is great. So 

Margaret Agard: yeah, and I enjoy it. And then as back then, that's where the computer science was. Computer science was part of the math department. Yep. And yeah, and I loved it. 'cause it was just like, can I make this machine do this formula and print all this stuff out? 

David Pasqualone: Yeah. Yes.

So where does it go from there? [00:27:00] So you have this epiphany, you get into math, and for all of our listeners, if you feel like you're swimming upstream, anything worth doing takes hard work. But usually when you're doing it, there's like, yeah, there's like enthusiasm. You get in the zone and you know, we all get tired sometimes.

We're in the flesh, but we're in the spirit. It's just. Invigorating. Yes. But if you're constantly feeling like you're moving a, a salmon and going upstream, fighting, listen to Margaret. Maybe you just gotta tweak your career path a little or your life path a little. And there's something else God has for you.

So don't be afraid to make a switch. 

Margaret Agard: So what happens is I then I meet my husband on a blind date. I've gone home to New Jersey and Okay. And I meet him and I'm, I'm pretty sure he's the one, right? I have no idea why, because of probably all this subconscious stuff going on. He won't leave me for another woman.

And we get married and we had a couple kids and we're back at university. He had been in the Navy and now he wants [00:28:00] to get his degree too. And so I. Was, I don't even know how to describe how I think about math, but it, it does not involve words. And I can become so involved in my head in it that I don't hear anything going on around me.

And that's when I would come up with what might be called the elegant solutions. You know, it's a simple solution that opens your eyes to many other ideas. And, and I would do that. I had impressed some professors, but one day I looked up, I had just been gone in my head. I, I didn't know when it was gonna happen.

It's not like I planned it. I'd be thinking sort of in my head through some math things that I was working on and, and I had gone into that part of [00:29:00] me and I came out of it. And looked down and saw my 18 month old baby at my feet with dirty diapers, a tear stained face, he'd fallen asleep at my feet. And I thought, this child has been trying to get my attention and I didn't even hear the child.

So I can either be an excellent mathematician or a mother, but I can't do both. And I'm already a mother, so it's not like I have a choice. I mean, everyone was like, I read out Stephen Hockey and his wife would be, you know, he would just go into himself. He'd be sitting on the couch for a day, two days. And I thought I could be Stephen Hawking, but I didn't have a wife.

I was the wife, I had the kids. So I was a mother, and I loved being a mother. So I have no regrets about that part. My children at this point are all doing well, so hopefully it'll [00:30:00] stay that way. But we had an unhappy marriage. My husband has, since my former husband, has since been diagnosed as bipolar and I don't know what they called it back then, different names, and he's like, I'm not crazy and I'm not taking meds.

And you know, he was the kind of person who would get a job on a good day and lose it on a bad day. We were constantly struggling financially. He had come from a background with alcohol and he is part Native American. His father had grown up a reservation. His father's father had killed his mother in an angry fight.

His mother's father had been killed in some kind of angry fight, and there was. People say they, well, the behaviors are passed down, whether or not the drinking behavior is passed down. The way we treat each PE people is passed down. And my fa, my [00:31:00] grandfather was an alcoholic, so I like to say I don't marry alcoholics, I marry his sons of alcoholics.

'cause it's a generation 

David Pasqualone: down. Yeah. And some people call it generational sins. Some people call it learned behavior. Some people it's in D n A and it could be D. All of the above. All of the above. But it's, there's definitely something to what we do today is the impact for our children tomorrow. 

Margaret Agard: Yes, yes.

The best thing I ever heard someone say once in a meeting was when I was a teenager. I used to say to my, so he said, I called my kids the redheads, and I'd say to myself, Ooh, the redheads wouldn't like it if I did that. Thinking of his future children, kept him, you know, making better choices. I wish I'd known that when I was a teenager.

Yeah, so I, anyway, so that's where we are. My husband and I, I'm staying home. I brought food, brought money into the house since he wasn't always consistent by doing daycare for as long as I could. And that was enough to make a house payment and buy food. And then [00:32:00] we

at one point when my youngest child was a year and a half, I really felt this thought, you're gonna have to go to work to support this family. And I, my father could always hear the spirit. And so I said, if I need to do this, I need for my father to call me and tell me this is the right thing to do. And right after I finished that prayer, the phone rang, I.

It was my father calling from his work and I gave this whole, you know, story to him and what was going on and why I thought I needed to go to work. And he said, it's going to be hard, but you need to do this. Those were not words I wanted to hear. And so I did go to work and I began to, instead of programming, programming computers, I began to sell them.

And my dad, as I said, was a contractor. And so I ended up selling [00:33:00] into the construction industry at that time and made good money, ended up becoming an executive. So for the time I was about 32 until I was in my late forties, that's what I was doing and I was supporting the family. So I went from being a stay-at-home mom to supporting a family of 10.

David Pasqualone: Wow. And did, was that your final child or did you still have kids during that time? 

Margaret Agard: No, he was the last one. Okay, okay. And yeah, and we knew, so that was my eighth one was born when I was thirty one, thirty two. 

David Pasqualone: Yeah. So you're a mother of eight, you have a husband. There's definitely issues within the marriage.

You're working, and this brings us up to, you're 39 years old, but during that time, were there red flags? Were you like, you know, what's going on with my husband? What was going on with your relationship and your inner being then? 

Margaret Agard: I would say looking at that time, the best I could say about that marriage is there were times it [00:34:00] wasn't too painful.

It was painful the whole time. And I, I kept thinking it was me. Like, if I could stop getting upset, we'd be okay. And there was a time when I thought about leaving him when I, we just had four children, and when I prayed about it, the answer I got was keep trying. And I got that answer for probably 12, 14 years.

And then the answer started coming, you need to prepare to end this marriage. And so when I ended it, and when I ended it, hmm, I'm trying to think it, I was 43, 43, 44 when we separated. And it was only because two things, three things had happened. I, I, at that point had started working more as a consultant and.

I was bringing in income, kind of, you know, as [00:35:00] consultants do randomly, but consistently. 'cause I had some large accounts and I can remember I, all of a sudden I wasn't getting anything. All my money was drying up. And my husband at this point, he's an artist. He was working with an artist who was making $200,000 a year off her art.

And she taught him how to do it and he started to do that. Hmm. And so I was praying at this point, why is this all drying up? And the answer came because as long as you keep doing this, He never will. And so I'm just cutting it off to see what he would do. And probably a month or so after that, we were praying together as a couple.

We still prayed as a couple. And I had this terrible feeling that I needed to prepare to end the marriage. And now we, at this point, we'd stopped fighting. We weren't fighting. And he, as we finished, as we finished this prayer [00:36:00] time, he said to me, I felt God say to me, he looked very shocked. I felt God say to me that if I did not do what he was telling me to do, you and the children would be taken from me and given to another.

And my reaction, this kind of a feminist woman was, I'm not something to be taken and given, you know, not a cow for own sakes, but yeah. And so I looked at him and said, are you going to do it? And he said nothing. And I knew he wasn't. 

David Pasqualone: Now, was there any adultery that you knew of in the marriage at this point?

No. 

Margaret Agard: No. No, it wasn't that. Yeah. Well I think he was being told how he could support the family. I think he was being told he needed to really step up to the plate, that he could do it. And that's what I think. And I think that's what he was being told to do and he wanted. So 

David Pasqualone: then how did that end, how did that 

Margaret Agard: marriage end?

Well and you know, I could keep really busy with all those kids and working, 'cause I was still working. Money started coming in again and I was sitting [00:37:00] in church and it was, you have got to end this marriage. And I finally said to God, I, you know, we've stopped fighting. I, I don't understand why we have to end it now.

Worked so hard for it and, and, and this is what I heard, the children are almost past saving. And by that I think God meant spiritually for himself. And, and that's all I needed to hear. Like it wasn't about me and my husband, it was about making sure these children. Saw something different. 

David Pasqualone: And then where does life go from there?

So you go and you decide to get divorced. We get divorced. Was it amicable? Was it messy? What was it like? Was like war Are the roses or was it pretty peaceful? 

Margaret Agard: We tried to get divorced. So at this point I'd like to say he's my husband. My first husband was like Peter Pan. So he didn't wanna grow up, he didn't wanna take responsibility.

He and he had become the [00:38:00] house husband, except he didn't do house husband stuff. Like I still fixed meals. I. Did the shopping. I, we had taught the kids to do their own laundry. It was kind of funny 'cause we were like, as soon as you turn 12, you have to do your own laundry, right? And so then the little kids are like, well, I can do my laundry.

I was like, well, you don't have to do, no, I wanna, 'cause there's a show I'm grown up, right? So now everybody's doing their own laundry and he is just kind of coming and going as he pleases. And he, he would leave just before they got home from school. And the kids would be like, I'd come home to a dark house with a note.

Here's dad. Like, oh, I went to town in into Arlington, Virginia. I'll be back or something. And, and so I really looked at it as that, I'm not sure what we would lose by not having him there. And so I, the fir, so the reason I make that point is he, he fought the first mi, he fought the first divorce the [00:39:00] first time I tried.

Mostly because he wanted to stay in that house and have me support him, is how it felt. It's not like he was taking care of the kids. And I had to give up being an executive because I traveled. And more than once when I traveled, he locked the teenagers out of the house. They will tell you that. And so I was like, I come home and be all this upset going on, and I'd have to calm it down.

So I thought, I can't travel. I have to be here and take care of this family. So he was actually at this point, I think five of my kids were teenagers and the others were heading up there. And it felt like I had the most rebellious teenager in the house, was my husband. And so I stopped trying to end that marriage at that point.

And then, hmm, I think it was about a year later. It was just clear I had to end it. And at that point he didn't fight it. We just ended it. So I guess it was [00:40:00] amicable at that point. Yeah. And, and then were you friends? No. 

David Pasqualone: Yeah. No, no, no. And then, I mean, from the outside, if I was to bet money, you know, he's disappearing.

He's not connected, he's kind of using you for money and stuff. I mean, that usually is red flags for adultery and that he's having an outside affair. Did you ever talk to him about that later? Or you just 

Margaret Agard: moved on? He, he's, he's, he's not the per kind of person who lies. And he really is what I said something to his sister and he agreed later.

I said, I guess he was bisexual. 'cause we had all these kids, right? And yet he's attracted to men. She said, I don't think he's bisexual. I think he's asexual, had no interest. So no, he didn't have an affair. Not because maybe he didn't have the opportunity, but he had no interest. Hmm. So, yeah, and, and I could be very direct with him and he wouldn't.

He will tell you the truth in a way that will make you believe lie. And if you're very direct, like, are you having an affair? And he said, no, you know, that would, that would be the truth. The [00:41:00] way some people answer that and he would answer. That's kind of sleazy is, well, what makes you think I would do that?

You know, like they don't answer. Yeah. Yeah. The gas lie. But I was, I've been with him long enough to know if he said something like that, but he didn't. He was very clear. He was not, if anything, he thought I was, but he didn't really think I was. But yeah. So tell people he thought I was. 

David Pasqualone: Yeah. So where does your life go from there, Margaret?

You get divorced, you got eight kids, you're 39 now. What happens in your role? I thought 

Margaret Agard: I was in my forties at this point. So when did I. 93, I was 43 and we're divorced. It's in Virginia. We had to wait a a year before you had to be separated for a year. So it took a while. It took about a year and a half to get, to get the divorce final, but just the way it is in Virginia.

David Pasqualone: Yeah, every state has different laws and yeah, the, some of them are beneficial and some are ridiculous. So God hates divorce. Just to clarify this, God hates [00:42:00] divorce. We gotta do everything we can to keep our families together. And most importantly, before we get married, we need to make sure we're listening to God, not our own hearts and marry the right person.

'cause that'll avoid a lot of problems. If you marry someone who loves God more than they love you, you're gonna have a marriage that lasts. If you marry somebody that loves you, loves a choice that can change. And your statistics are 50 plus percent divorced these days, right? Right. So, When you're in a marriage, there are times where, you know, God says clearly adultery.

Right? He still doesn't want divorce. He still doesn't, you know, that's not the first choice, but he understands it 'cause the pain of adultery and you know, like you had a marriage where you felt God was leading you to do that, and that's between you and God. Right? But what I'm saying is you have the biblical side, which is the most important, the only thing that matters, then the real life [00:43:00] impact on you and the kids.

And then you have the freaking world to deal with in the paperwork and the government and you know, being a woman versus being the man. It's a nightmare. And it can really harm you, your family, your kids, your mental state, your financial state. It's divorce is terrible. The only people who win are sane and the lawyers, right.

Margaret Agard: So I, you know, and I did the divorce myself. It's interesting because Let me see. When my, I I, when I didn't understand how to recognize God's voice, right. I didn't really learn how to recognize it until I was in my twenties. I got married when I was 19, about to turn 20. And I had kept having this thought that I should not marry this man.

And I, you know, people will say, well, everybody gets a little cold feet just before you know, right? So I convinced myself that wasn't that, that that was just what was going on. Only looking back as I really learned to recognize the spirit, I was like, God did everything. But it hit me over the head. 

David Pasqualone: I, I can [00:44:00] attest to the listeners the same exact thing.

I knew that I loved this woman, but just like you, I never had peace. I actually heard don't marry her. And I did it anyways. Yes. And I thank God for my children, but man, it was not an easy 21 years. So I'm tracking with you. Yeah. So to all of our listeners, young, old, in between, Before you get married, don't do anything for your will or what seems right.

If you do not have peace and assurance that that's who you're supposed to marry, don't get married. 'cause now you're making a vow of God to each other. Yeah. And ultimately everybody pays for the sin if you're not 

Margaret Agard: doing this right. Yeah. The children paid the price. That's how I look at 

David Pasqualone: it. The children.

Exactly. For generations. For generations. 

Margaret Agard: Yes. Yep. Because my grandkids will still be like, wait, grandpa Bill, isn't our granddad like you were married to? Grandpa Skip. 

David Pasqualone: Yeah. And it's no good. [00:45:00] Five different houses for Christmas and Easter and it's just, it's just terrible. Yeah. So, but go on. So now you get divorced, you're moving forward.

Where does your life go from there? Market? Well, 

Margaret Agard: I had a 20 year plan that I had written down. You know, I was I had changed. I was still in the computer industry and the industry I'd been in, which was selling into the construction industry, had had a 20 year growth cycle. And I had just done great with that.

And so I looked to see what the next industries were that were coming up and that, at that point it was g i s systems and document management, like selling to lawyers and doing mapping and all this stuff, which you, we can see today. And so I went to work for one of the top to the granddaddy of g i s system companies, and with the plan that when my youngest son graduated from high school, that I would then be able to travel.

I would move right up in that company. 'cause as a company is growing, they're gonna just let you move up. Whatever you can do. And that was [00:46:00] my plan. A nice 4 0 1 k had it all worked out. And I, and so one day I thought I, I'd like to go on a date. I don't wanna get married, but I would like to maybe go on a date.

So this is like a couple years after the divorce. And I tried to go on a date and God stopped it. 'cause I was, I thought, well, if I don't wanna get married, I should probably date the kind of guy I wouldn't marry. Does that even make sense to you, David? But sometimes I do think more like a computer than a person.

Like I just stuck the emotions aside. Yep. And so then I did it again. And, and, and and God was like, I told you not, not to go out on dates with somebody that, you know, doesn't have your same moral standards and commitment to me. And, but I'll stop this one again. And he did. And so I went over to my friend's house and kind of griping about, I just wanted a night out without the kids and somebody else paying attention to me like that, right?

Mm-hmm. And she said, I, I don't know why God is [00:47:00] doing what he's doing, Margaret. All I know is God loves us and wants to bless us. It's good to have friends like that. So I went home and I'm praying to God, like I don't get, he said, Margaret, you're gonna meet the man you're going to marry next fall. And I said, no, thank you.

I have a temporary problem. And at this point I only had two children still in high school, just starting high school and the rest were off in college and jobs and things like that. Although they most of were still living at home. That was how I helped 'em go to college so they could stay at home.

And I thought, I just don't see a stepdad with teenage boys. I don't see it. I think that's gonna be a big mistake. So thank you. But no, because I am a little stressed, [00:48:00] I'll admit I was very stressed at the time, but that would be a long-term solution to a temporary problem is how I was looking at it.

Like I'd get the boys raised, I wouldn't be quite as stressed, but then I'd be married. I wasn't sure I wanted that. So I had enough notice in advance that I could think through all of that. I remember reading in Ruth, I was reading the Old Testament and this, this, there was a scripture where I think it's, Naomi says to Ruth, let me, like when it would be out with me to, I forgot because I had that first memorized for a long time.

He's basically saying, let's give you some rest. I'm gonna have you marry Boaz, right? I think we can get Boaz to take you as his wife. And so that was the scripture I read and it felt like God was saying to me, you don't have to work so hard. Oh, [00:49:00] bring someone into your life who will help to carry this load.

So now during that time is the time when I started praying this other prayer, which is, help me to know what to do today. God, to me, that's the message of my first book. It's when I just started praying every day. I have so much to do. Oh, because I didn't remember. I only had three years of college and now the computer industry has solidified, and so you really need a degree to move up on an executive level.

I just like it to look good, right? So I'm like, okay, I only have a year left. So now I have all these kids still at home, some are in college, some are working, some are in high school, and I'm working to support the whole family. I mean, the older kids were had jobs too, and I've decided to go back and finish my degree in a year if I could.

So that's what I did. And I was so overworked that I was lucky to get three or four hours sleep a night [00:50:00] and it didn't matter what, yeah. Eight kids in college 

David Pasqualone: in a full-time career. Yeah, I could see that. 

Margaret Agard: Yeah. Yeah. I was a little overworked. And so I was like, ah. I just, every day I would try to figure out what was the most important thing to do.

You know, they say like, oh, do the most important things first. Well, all, it's important. It's like one kid has to get to the doctor and I need to turn in this paper. And by the way, I rep, I promised a report to a client and I'd be thinking, I have to do it all. I don't know how to do it all, and the amount of time I have.

And so then I thought, you know what? Things that I would do sometimes didn't need to be done. Oh, I didn't know that. 'cause I couldn't see the future. I'd walk in with my paper for my class and there'd be a note on the door. The professor's sick. You don't need it till Friday. Just bring it Friday. I think, you know what, if I'd known that I could have worked on something else.

And so I thought, well, I know who does know the future and that's God, and I know how to hear his voice, so I'm gonna just sit down with my to-do list every night and [00:51:00] just say, what? What should I do today? What should I do the next day? And, and he completely revamped my life. Within a month or so, I was finished in everything because I only focused on what he told me to do.

I didn't add things to it. And I was finished by eight every night. I was getting plenty of sleep. I stopped stressing. 'cause I think, well, guy didn't tell me to do it. I guess I don't have to worry about it. Right? And after a while I was kind of embarrassed, like, oh, should I really be doing this? Like just.

Unloading this all on God. Then I started thinking about the Lord's Prayer, right? And it goes like this, you know, our father, which is art in heaven, how I be thy name, thy kingdom come, thy will be done on earth the way it is in heaven. So now I wonder how it's done in heaven. If you think all the angels are rushing up to God saying, oh, I got all so much to do today.

God, if you could just help me with this, help me with this like that. Or they're going after God and saying, what do you want me to do today, God? And so I thought, well, this is biblical. I can do this right? [00:52:00] And Jesus said the same thing, right? And John, John raised said, Jesus said, you know, my father, I have always with me because I do always those things that please him.

And I thought, well, that's basically how I'm living my life now. I'm just saying, what do you want me to do day by day? And it was very specific. Here's my list, how would you change this list? 

David Pasqualone: And that's a great perspective to have and to actually, if you're a listener and you have a struggle with organization or prioritizing or doing something and then feeling guilty, what Margaret's saying is brilliant.

And Margaret, how do you go about, so you write down the list of all the things you think you could possibly do, and then how do you go about asking God what his order is and what his priority is? 

Margaret Agard: Just like that. Like I'll, I do it now at [00:53:00] night because I found out if I do it in the morning, I'm probably already like a lot of people, like, you've got your day planned, you leave outta bed and you're doing it right, you're doing it.

And so that's a little late to ask him because it's hard for me to, to change my mind. So I'll, I'll just like have this three by five card and I'll write on it. Here's the 10 things I think I need to do today. And it just happened yesterday. God gave me one thing to do one thing and I thought, Hmm. I mean, I had to take, my husband was going to the doctor I had taken to that, but I'm thinking, I think I do a lot more than this one thing.

So I wrote three or four of my things down. But as we were coming back from the doctor appointment, which was like an hour away, My husband said, I think we need to stop in and visit this friend of ours who struggles with with stuff and their house had just burned down. She's living in an rv, so I think we need to take her out and just talk to her.

And that took about three hours of our time. [00:54:00] And so all that extra time I thought I had, I didn't have because something else got tossed onto the plate. 

David Pasqualone: Yeah. And I mean, a lot of people, high performing professionals, they'll tell you that they set out in their schedule to accomplish one thing a day. Now they're gonna do many little things that come up, but they're like, this is the one major thing I'm gonna do today, and the rest is just icing on the cake.

And I've tried to really work through that in my life and it, it helps me. It really helps me. So what you're saying, I mean, I've seen it not only I. In other people's reality, but in mine. So if you're listening to this, try what Margaret's talking about and have those conversations with God each day, every day.

It's a beautiful thing. 

Margaret Agard: I know. I think, well, if everybody got up and said, what do you want me to do today? God, the world would be a very different place. 

David Pasqualone: Yeah. Totally different. Totally different. So now you're, you're being, you're working, you're [00:55:00] going to school, you're finishing your degree, you still haven't met your husband this far in the chronological story.

Yeah. Bring us from there. Where, where do you meet your husband? Where does life go once you get your degree? 

Margaret Agard: So I had a really good friend, Robin, she's the one who said to me you know, God loves us. I just know that God loves us and wants to bless us, and she was the one I just shared everything with. I had asked God for a friend, actually, and one of the things he had given me to do was take dinner to this woman.

I didn't know very well. And that was my ended up being my friend Robin that just became really good friends. So this is in February. I've been told I'm gonna meet the man, I'm gonna marry it next fall. I've kind of thought the whole thing through. I've finally come to terms with it and then I've started saying, what?

What do I have to do to get ready? And first I was told, tell the children, well the, what can I say? So I'm like, to my kids. They all came to Sunday dinner. That's when we all got together and I said I'm getting married next fall. And they said, oh, who are you marrying? I said, I don't know. I haven't met him yet.

And [00:56:00] they were kind of used to me saying things like that. Probably in the summer I said, you know, what else do I need to do to get ready? And it was you need to get rid of everything you don't need in your house and start to pack things up 'cause you're gonna be moving. And I thought, oh no, no, you can't find someone for me right here.

Like, I'm gonna have to move. Like, isn't there someone am I so hard to find a mate for I'm gonna have to move. And then my best friend Robin moved and this was back before cell phone calls were so cheap. It was pretty pricey. And she said, we're gonna be settled. I'll get call you in a week or two. Well, I didn't hear from her for two months.

I was so lonely. My oldest son had decided he wanted to go to B Y U to meet a wife. 'cause he was like 26 and he couldn't meet anyone where we were. And I said, oh wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. There's this new thing online. It, it's a single site for [00:57:00] like, there's Christian, single size, there's all these different single sites you should sign up for this single site.

This is 1996, this is like 27 years ago. More than that. And, and I I said, here, lemme show you how to do it. And, and I am an oldest daughter. I'm controlling enough that I could have put his profile up for him, but I didn't. I put mine up to show him how to do it. And so he did put one up and I said, here's the worst thing.

Like, you would go there to school, you'll meet some girl from California, then you're gonna have to live near her family when you get married. We'll never see you again 'cause we're here in Virginia. You'd be in California, like, how hard This would be terrible. Right? And so he, he He actually did go to b y U where he met his wife, Mandy, who was from Maryland.

Like they were just like, or Pennsylvania, like, they ended up living in Maryland, still live in Maryland where all the rest of the kids are right there. But I, my husband Parker, William Parker, a in the books, I call [00:58:00] him Parker. And in my life, I call him Bill, he, he got on this single site too, and he saw my profile and I had said in my profile, since I wasn't executive, I knew they liked to golf.

I said, I like to do outdoor things, but I don't like to golf. In fact, I would rather give birth again than golf. I wanna make it clear I'm not changing my mind about this. Okay. So he looked at that and he said, I don't like to golf either. Right. So match made in heaven. So I marry him. He asked me to marry him without ever knowing what I looked like.

'cause back in 96 we were all using Dialup and you couldn't put photos online. It would take 10 minutes, 20 minutes mm-hmm. To download. But most of the men I met a couple other men, the first thing they did was say, will you email me or mail me a photo? And he never asked for a photo. Even after I asked him for a photo and asked me for a photo, he asked me to marry him without knowing what I look like.

[00:59:00] Made his decision based totally on who I am as a person 

David Pasqualone: now. That, that's awesome. It is very rare. So what about when did you meet for the first time? Face-to-face? I. 

Margaret Agard: Okay, so, God, you know, I didn't, there was no commas in that sentence. You're gonna meet the guy, the man you're going to marry in the fall.

I, I thought I was gonna marry him in the fall, but I actually met him in the fall. We didn't get married until the following spring and I think September, October. And, and guess what? He lives in California. Hmm. So I married him and I moved to California and my two youngest sons e eventually ended up out there with us finishing up their high school years in California.

David Pasqualone: And then Did Bill have any children? 

Margaret Agard: Yes, he has seven. So we have 15 children between us, 38 grandchildren, 24 great-grandchildren. All their spouses. Just the birthday cards added. We add 'em up. 'cause we had to order 'em. Right. I think we had 106. 

David Pasqualone: Wow, 

Margaret Agard: that's, yeah. [01:00:00] So I say, I hear about people say, I pray for each of my children every day by name.

I'm like, not happening. We, 

David Pasqualone: so what about this, so now you meet Bill, you guys get married, you have a combined family with 15 kids, 38 grandkids. Where does your life go from there and how old were you? You got married? 45, 46? No, I 

Margaret Agard: was 47. No, 47. Yeah, I was 47 and he, he's about 11, 12 years older than I am. So he was 59.

Okay. Yeah. And just very, very active. I'm glad we got married when we were older 'cause I could almost keep up with him. And he's just one of those, you know, he had a dairy and he worked full-time in the print industry and he sold, got rid of dairy and then he just liked to garden and gold pan. And we had had had, like, we thought we made some good decisions.

Good. And we had thought through this whole thing what we were gonna do. The company I worked for had said I could [01:01:00] transfer to the office in California and actually work from home. And my husband was part owner in a gold mine that was being worked by Morrison Knutson. And he was getting about five or 6,000 a month from that.

And I was getting six or thousand, 7,000 a month. 'cause this was, you know, in the nineties I looked at it today. Mm-hmm. That'd probably be like 150,000 a month today. And so we're like, we're gonna be fine. Right. We're, we've got like 12,000 a month coming in. Well, right after me married and just before I moved there, my company changed its mind and said, oh, you know what, we're not gonna do that.

We're not gonna let you transfer there. And the federal government closed down the gold mine. They called it an historic site. I. Mm. Which I'm sure you would all love to go visit one day if only, who could find it. So now he at this point had another little income coming in about 1200 a month. So we went from making 12,000 a month to 1200 a month.

I like to say [01:02:00] to people, we had this great plan is too bad. None of it worked out. Mm-hmm. So we had to learn how to work together and really become partners and figuring out how to deal with what issues we were now gonna deal with because our income was about 10% of what we thought it was gonna be. 

David Pasqualone: And what did you, how do you recommend people who are married, whether they just got married, they're both to get married, they just got married, they've been in marriage, they're both to get divorced.

What do you recommend for people to do to have that equal yoke and to get together and to be able to work together as a team? 

Margaret Agard: Well, I, I have the one prayer I do pray and, and he does the same thing. It's similar. What should we do today, God? And the other prayer that I pray and that we prayed as a couple is help me to see this person as you do God and help me to love this [01:03:00] person as you do God.

And that I actually, I started praying that when my second youngest son was 15, he was very arrogant and I was having a hard time with him. Should I share this story? 'cause it's a little outta order, but No, 

David Pasqualone: I mean, if you feel led to share, share, we've been jumping around the whole episode. So if you can bring value and to help people, let's do it.

And let's just not talk about, you know, again, what you overcame or what you achieved or what you learned. But let's break it down so somebody else is struggling with that, given some practical steps how to do it. 

Margaret Agard: Okay, so I. He was when my son Daniel was 15 and he, you know, he was like six five and he was starting on like basketball team.

He was a starter football team, starter lacrosse. He was a starter. And just, just seemed to me, you know, always kind of telling me how terrible I was as a mother and how I made bad decisions and how [01:04:00] he would do it different. And I said to God one day, this kid, I love him 'cause I, I'm his mom, but I don't like him much.

And, and that's when I was given this prayer. I want you to pray to see him like I do and to love him like I do. And like a week or two later, I'm over at my mom's house. She still lived in the Virginia area and I am, this is before I met Bill and I am, she had all these women's magazine next to her couch.

And I'm flipping through 'em and I come across an article on one that caught my eye because it was talking about how this boy had accused a, a favorite PE teacher of I. Inappropriate behavior and everyone was mad at him. They loved the teacher. They had signs all over town that they were gonna raise money for this teacher to defend himself.

And the boy was basically being pilled. And as I, I thought, oh, that's something like that just happened in our town. So I thought, I'll read what happened. And then I realized it was our town and it was the boy. [01:05:00] And then he said, he said this the article said this. What kept him going is on his bedside table, he had framed a note petition that had said basically, we believe you and we support you.

And, but there are only a few names on it. And as soon as I read about that, I remembered the day I had been dropping Dan off to school where this was happening. And he said to me, I've got this petition I'm gonna hand around to get people to sign it for this kid. And. Then I picked him up that afternoon.

He was angry and I said, what happened to the petition? And he said, well, I went to the principal's office, you know, to see if I could, and they said they didn't want us talking about this at school anymore. I wasn't allowed to pass the petition around, said, so I just got some of my friends and I signed it and gave it to him.

And so that's who God saw. He didn't see this arrogant 15 year [01:06:00] old trying to figure out his way through life. He saw a young man who saw someone hurting and did what he could. To help. And he's still that man. 

David Pasqualone: That's awesome. And then how, you know, we're all, nobody's perfect. I'm not perfect. You're not perfect.

We are, we can be perfect whole, but we can't be without sin. Holy. Right. But now your son, he's got that big heart and that attitude, I'm sure it benefited him in life. But how did that particular story, just to close everybody's mind, that was, that teacher found guilty or innocent? 

Margaret Agard: You know, I don't know because it was shortly after that that I met and married Bill.

So it was, and I left town. So, and you know, those things drag on for years. It's not like, so I don't know. I have no idea what actually happened there. It be interesting 

David Pasqualone: though. It would be interesting to find out 'cause like to see not only. Your son was supporting this, but was the instinct that God put in him.

Correct. So, just curious. So where does your life go? Let's finish this. Okay. 

Margaret Agard: So, yeah. So I married Bill, and [01:07:00] actually before I met him I said to God, well, what is this guy even gonna be like? And he said, well, well, would you like him to be like, said, why don't you write down the top 10 things that you wanted a man?

And so I, I kind of went through it and I thought, as I was selling computer stuff, sometimes people will come in and they want new software and all they have in mind is the, the things that the old software didn't do. And I would say to them, I need to know also what the software does do. 'cause if we're gonna replace it, you wanna make sure you get the good as well as fix the bad, right?

And so that's what I felt. I I just wrote down 10 things and, and there were things like careful with his money and has a good sense of humor and, you know, like, I forget what it was. Actually, I still have the list I could find out. 'cause it kept me going through the first three years of the marriage.

Every once in a while I'd get the list out and look at it again. And sure enough, I check everything off. He's all 10 of those things. And, but after I married him, I thought, you know, God, there were some things I thought went without saying, it didn't occur to me to put on the [01:08:00] list that he should, like onions and green peppers.

Mm-hmm. Because I don't know how to cook without onions and green peppers. But the basic stuff is there and, and I will look at it every once in a while. It reminds me, yeah, he's still that man, even if I'm upset with him that day. And 

David Pasqualone: then now you guys are married, you move to California. Where does your life go from there?

Margaret Agard: Well, as members of the Church of Jesus Christ, Latterday Saints, we get to serve missions as seniors. You don't usually see 'em, but that's what we did. We sold everything we had. We like did a prison mission. We worked with inner city churches in Albuquerque. We went up to Alaska. We spent time in the villages up in Alaska, north of the Arctic Circle.

I learned more about prayer there because in Albuquerque we had to speak Spanish, which we didn't do well. And I remember once just meeting with this little family and we'd had some other people come in to help us because they, they could speak Spanish, right? Mm-hmm. And we'd set up a second meeting [01:09:00] and as we're planning for that meeting, when we get there, the other people aren't there.

And so I start praying, please have those people go by and know we need help. And that's what I prayed. And at the end of the. Time they never showed up. So I run into 'em the next day and they said to me, you know what? We saw your car at that house. And we thought, wow, they're brave 'cause they really need help.

But you know what? I left out of the prayer, well have them come in. This is it's, and I don't think God was being me, but I think what he was saying is, I need you to learn to be specific. Mm-hmm. Like when you pray to me, I want you to be specific and he won't. I'm truly trying to understand agency. Right.

Because at one point, remember the blind man when Jesus is walking past with all these people and he starts yelling what's happening? And they [01:10:00] tell him and he starts yelling, you know Jesus, son of David, and he goes over to him and the man is blind. And Jesus says to him, what do you want? I'm thinking, why do you ask him what he wants?

Isn't it clear? I mean, he's blind, probably wants to see, but God isn't going to presume he isn't going to step on our agency. And sometimes we do want to figure it out for ourselves and then we go and we say, I really do need help. At least that's been my experience. And so learning to pray a spec specifically about what I'm looking for has been an important part of my life.

Yeah. And whether you, 

David Pasqualone: no matter what religion you're part of, there's one true God and he loves us. Yes. And what Margaret's talking about, you know, some people. [01:11:00] Might go to a different church or they might have a different religion. But it all comes down to the relationship we have with God. So there's one truth, there's one God, the Bible, you know, outlines who God is and how much he loves us.

And you have the Holy Spirit and you have Jesus Christ. But when Margaret's talking about how she's talking to God and God's talking to her, anybody in fellowship with God and has that relationship, it's a beautiful, wonderful thing. And it takes the pressure off us 'cause we're listening to God's leading and follow Him.

And what you're saying about, you know, just. Putting things down and praying what you want. And then if God wants to change it, he will. Right. And, and you know, you're, 

Margaret Agard: yeah. And if I will, if it's my will, kind 

David Pasqualone: of, yeah, yeah, exactly. Th will, and it talks about, you know, there's a lot of people who, they might call it the universe or they don't necessarily believe in God and they call it the secret or the law of attraction.

But writing down what you want and [01:12:00] becoming very clear is huge. And making sure that, you know, we have a pure heart and a pure intention to glorify God is what matters. And if you're praying for something but you're open to change, you're open to something different, you know, that's when God really works and moves.

'cause he is gonna give you perfect. Just like if a kid said, you know, mom, dad can I get a car? Well that seems huge to a teenager. But God's got all the money and resources and the creation and universe, right? So it's super easy for him. But if you just expect a little clunker, you're gonna get a little clunker.

But if you ask specifically for what you want, I. A lot of times God gives it to you unless there's something better or reason why so you keep mentioning it through your life. You're praying prayers and you're asking for specific things, and they're coming true. If you're listening, pick up on what Margaret's saying and be very specific in your prayers, but be open to [01:13:00] better solutions that God 

Margaret Agard: knows.

I have two, two comments on that and like, what is the difference between the law of attraction and faith? And for me, faith is embodied by when God said to me, you are going to meet the man, you, you're going to marry or should marry, or I want you to marry or whatever. Because I still had my option, right?

I could have not married him. Married next fall. So I had faith that that was going to happen. I I didn't sit down and say to myself, I want a husband and I want him next fall. And that would've been more law of attraction, if that makes sense. I. I'm not saying women shouldn't do that. 'cause I know women who have been told like, write down what you want in a man and take it to God.

And, and, and it happens. But in my case, I've had more than once where God has given me something to do that I didn't think I could do. And I was able to do it because I had faith that Jesus Christ could make it happen and make me capable of doing that [01:14:00] thing. 

David Pasqualone: Yep. And even stuff like you were talking about, you took faith as a, you know, the substance thing so forth, the evidence of things not seen, right?

Right. You took steps in faith and there's so many parallels to all these different teachings, but if it's truth and it works short term and long guarantee, it's in the Bible. But you said how okay, God was telling you you're gonna meet somebody. Start cleaning your house, start getting prepared to move.

You are preparing yourself and you are in action. And anytime I've seen in my life, in my friends' lives, in the Bible, people are always in action. They're not sitting still when God moves. Right. So make sure if you're listening, you're in action. You're in movement, you're moving towards something. And if it's wrong, God will correct your path If you're willing, yes.

But if it's, but if it's not wrong, just keep going and have the confidence that God loves you and he's gonna correct. But even with your husband, I was laughing when you were saying that 'cause you're sitting there cleaning your house, cleaning the [01:15:00] garage, you're, you're minimizing things and then boom, everything happens.

You needed 

Margaret Agard: to right there he was. I was like, huh. Right on time. And because I wasn't sure, because I'd made such a bad decision the first time, I was afraid that, is this the right one? So I actually prayed and, and my relatives, my friends were all praying that when he met me, he would know I was the right one.

There would be no doubt in his mind. And really, two or three weeks after we met online, he was asking me to marry him and he was just sure. Sure. But I was it, I thought, okay. 

David Pasqualone: That's, see, that's tough. Like I, I, I'd have to know from God for sure, this is the person to ever get married again. I mean, it would've to be like sky opening kind of Yes.

Clouds. Yeah. So that's awesome. Now how long 

Margaret Agard: have you two been married? We just celebrated our 25th. 

David Pasqualone: Man, that's fantastic. That's fantastic. Yeah. So, well, let's do 

Margaret Agard: this, Margaret, can I add just one more thing? Yeah. No, no, no. Go ahead. I started, I have two, a couple of things I started doing. So we got back from that mission.

That's actually when I went to God and said, should I believe in Christ? Like I, [01:16:00] this is something I've never doubted. And his answer was, have you ever done anything you can never make up for? Okay. Because I raised Christian. I, I know the whole thing is like, oh yeah, I get it. That Without Christ, the universe is near just nor merciful.

It's only because of Christ that it's both, that it's only because of Christ that I can be healed of the guilt and shame I feel for the things I did that I can never make up for, and that I can be healed of. The grief and pain that I feel for the things that people have done to me that they could never make up for that all the Starr in the world wouldn't make up for it, but, but Christ does.

And it was that belief that actually kept our marriage going. This idea of being made whole. At one point I I, I couldn't see how it was working. It seemed like often when you're following God, it seems like things get worse before they get [01:17:00] better. And what keeps me going is holding onto the idea that I was told this is the right direction.

That's what keeps me going. What was I thinking? Oh, it was because I was reading about the Easter story now I was reading, you know, John, and, and I'm asking, as I read the scriptures now, I often say, why is this in there? Why did you want that in the scriptures? And he is telling them what's going to come.

And I realize he's telling them what's going to come because it's not gonna look good. And they need to know that he is in this, that he knew it was gonna look like this, that he knew it was gonna happen like that. And that's how it felt when I was in this marriage. I was like, it's not looking good right now.

I mean, we're struggling financially. We, we have our own issues we brought into the marriage. We're having a hard time figuring out how to work together. And at one point I just remember falling to my knees and praying to God and saying, just give me something to hold onto. [01:18:00] And the answer came all will be made whole as a result of this marriage.

And. I knew I, I originally thought I was just referring to my children and myself, but then I also realized it meant my husband and his children. And in the New Testament, when Christ uses that word, my faith has made the whole, he is talking about spiritual and emotional healing, not just physical. So I really, hell go ahead.

David Pasqualone: Oh, no, no. There's a delay between us. I apologize. Just finish your thought and then I got a question. 

Margaret Agard: Well, to me, understanding what that word whole meant is, and then I've asked my kids about that. I thought, well, it's been 20 years. How do you think this marriage has helped you or has it? And they're very clear like, well, first of all, I didn't trust marriage 'cause of what happened with your first visiting you with him.

I do. [01:19:00] They've said, I didn't trust men. I didn't think I could count. Even the boys, the younger ones have said, you know, I wasn't sure I could. Count on men. I was never really close to allow myself to get close, to have a man friend, but because of Bill, I do, I feel like I can trust them now. And so there's been a lot of healing on all our parts as we have worked hard to bring God into the marriage.

Amen. 

David Pasqualone: And what practical tips, what are the things you learned working with Bill that you can advice, give advice, like, Hey, if you're struggling your marriage, try this. What are some of the top three things that you learned while you're going through these 20 years? Well, like 

Margaret Agard: I said that to, to constantly remind myself of what.

I saw in him when I married him. So I wrote it down specifically so I could look at it and second to pray [01:20:00] that prayer, help me to see this person as you do help me to love this person as you do. And third for us it's to, you know, we just spent a lot of time helping other people and that's what our life is about.

I mean, other people have things they do and this is what we do that makes us happy is we go out together like taking that woman to lunch. 

David Pasqualone: Awesome. Now lemme ask you this, Margaret, between your birth and today, is there anything else we missed in your story or significant that you want to touch on before we transition to where's Margaret today and where are you heading?

Margaret Agard: I was having this question, how do I always have his spirit to be with me? That's what I wanted to know. How do I always dwell on his presence? And I went to a silent retreat. We, I, I, it was, I think it was an inter-religious, but it, the woman I was meeting with, who is my person who walks you through your three [01:21:00] days was a Catholic nun.

And she handed me this book because I kept saying, I still don't understand how I can always have a spirit like that, right? And, and the book was, oh, I've forgotten his name, but he writes about contemplative prayer or centering prayer. And so that's a practice I've added to my life where I will spend like 20 minutes just allowing, just opening myself up to God's spirit with no questions, no agenda on my part.

Just I'm here for whatever you want to share with me. There's a a guy who does podcasts, rich Lewis. You might look him up and he talks a lot about that. 

David Pasqualone: Yeah. And a lot of people, it's a form of meditation or you know, people think meditation just hum and sit in a corner Right. With your fingers up in the air and your legs crossed.

Right. But no, it's all part of that same circle. And you know, Jesus himself [01:22:00] went into the woods and spent time with God. And that's super important. So whether you call it meditation or com, I can't say that word 'cause I'm dyslexic com complex 

Margaret Agard: centering call centering 

David Pasqualone: prayer. Centering, sorry, sorry.

Centering prayer. I, there's certain words I have a super hard time saying, but say the compli complimentary reward again. Contemplative, 

Margaret Agard: comple, contemp, contemp. Like contemporary, you know, like contemporary? Yes. Can you say contemporary's? Contemporary contemplative. That's it. 

David Pasqualone: Comple. I, I gotta practice that.

You can't do it. There's words like phenomenon. There's certain words that are so hard for me in my brain, they just spin around. So that's one of the words you just exposed me. So everybody listening. There you go. If you wanna get me in a conversation, use that word. I'm gonna look like a moron. But, but cool.

Well, what else? Anything else you wanna mention or, or where's 

Margaret Agard: Mark? Oh, we're here today. We're where 

David Pasqualone: I'm today. Where are you today and where are you headed? You just shared with us how can we help [01:23:00] you get to your next destination? 

Margaret Agard: Isn't that interesting? I, you know, I have two things going. One is that really the heavenly Father had me write these.

Two books, and I'm working on a third about in his footsteps. And then he said, I want you to go on podcasts and just talk to people about turning their life over to me by turning each day over to me. And that's what the books are about. Actually what happened when I did that and some of the experiences I had where, hmm, you know, God has just led me and said, I haven't trusted the answers sometimes and I wished I had, or I did trust, and here's what happened as a result.

And I can remember, he's, he's made my marriage stronger through praying that prayer. And so the books are on my website in his footsteps.com. And what we're dealing with right now is we're old and we're dying. Like [01:24:00] my husband's, you know, in his eighties and he has a heart disease. And, and so we've had to really rethink our lives and say, Where are we going from here?

What is the most important thing we can do? And they answer, we both got the same answer, which is continue on that path that path of spending time with me each day and helping people. 

David Pasqualone: Amen. And we'll put links to your website and the books and the show notes. And if someone wants to get ahold of you is the best way.

Social media, your website, phone, what's the best way for somebody to reach you if they have follow up questions? 

Margaret Agard: I, I would go to the website and, and I mostly on Facebook, so could get to me that way. And I probably have an email form on there so that, You know, I'm not grabbing your email necessarily, so it'll let you send to me and I can respond to that.

Awesome. Let me see. I have a newsletter that comes out once a month in which I share [01:25:00] similar stories to what we shared today. And I say, I'm not gonna spam you 'cause I'm too lazy and tired old. So once a month you'll be lucky to get that newsletter, but I have been pretty consistent for a couple of years.

That's 

David Pasqualone: awesome. Well, Margaret, it's been great getting to know you today and hanging out with you. Are any questions you have or final thoughts before we wrap up this episode? 

Margaret Agard: No, I think that's it. Thanks 

David Pasqualone: for having me on, David. Yeah, no, it's been my pleasure. Ladies and gentlemen, thank you for your time today.

Hopefully this episode's helped you. If you have any questions for Margaret and myself, please reach out through the website and we love you. But like our slogan says, don't just listen to this great information or any truth that God brings to you. You gotta do it, you gotta repeat it every day so you can have a great life in this world, and more importantly, an eternity to come.

So thank you for being here, Margaret. [01:26:00] Thank you for being here as the listener. We love you all. Have a great day and see you in the next episode. Ciao.