Kristina Mand-Lakhiani | Adapting to Change, Being Inquisitive, & Becoming Flawesome

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Kristina Mand-Lakhiani is an international speaker, entrepreneur, artist, philanthropist, and mother of 2 kids. As a co-founder of Mindvalley, a leading publisher in the personal growth industry, Kristina dedicated the last 20 years of her career from teachers like Michael Beckwith, Bob Proctor, Lisa Nichols, and many more.
Kristina helps her students to virtually hack happiness by taking them through her unique framework – “Hacking happiness” – a unique framework of balancing your life, taking in every moment, and paying close attention to the small daily choices. Kristina is also the author of three transformational quests – “7 Days To Happiness”, “Live By Your Own Rules.” and “The Art of Being Flawesome”. Kristina talks about personal transformation, authenticity, understanding and accepting yourself.

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Core Themes, Keywords, & Mentions: 

• Russian born, perfectionism, truth, who do I want to be, Soviet Union, divorce, turning point, love your country, attitude, transformation, knowledge, problems, resolution, consumerism, staying true to yourself, NGO, Mind Valley, forgiveness, conscious coupling, inquisitive, Soviet union collapse, Becoming Flawesome

Transcript

Kristina Mand-Lakhiani | Adapting to Change, Being Inquisitive, & Becoming Flawesome 

Hello, my Remarkable friend. Welcome to this week's episode of the podcast, the Kristina Mand-Lakhiani story. What we're going to do today is we're just going to start off by saying thank you for being here. Whether you're a first time guest or a longtime listener, you know, the whole purpose of the show is to help one another grow.

Be better humans and glorify God. So today Christina's going to talk about her journey. [00:01:00] Growing up in this collapse of the Soviet Union, set her in a path of just tumultuous times and learning to adapt and overcome. Right? She's going to share with us her life story, but how along the way, all these twists and turns, she was able to refocus.

Move forward in life so we can too. So get out your pens and papers, get your favorite beverage. Enjoy this episode of the podcast, but like our slogan says, don't just listen to great content from Christina, but do the good you need to each day. Repeat it. You can have a great life in this world, and most importantly in the world to come eternity.

So, Listen., Do., Repeat., For, Life!. So Christine is gonna share with us her worldview. Some of you myself, we may not agree with everything, but what we do is we take the good. We grow together. She is an author of her new book, becoming [00:02:00] Flossing, which you're about to hear about. She is a business woman, an entrepreneur.

She has a background that's deep and wide and very successful from man's eyes. And you're gonna see in her journey how all along the way between great quotes and life insights, you're gonna be able to take these tips, apply 'em to your life. And be a better human. So that's it. I'm David Pasqualone. This is our friend 

Christina.

Enjoy this episode of the Remarkable People Podcast. Right now I.

[00:02:33] video2122303010: Hey Christina, how are you today? Hey, thank you. Thank you for having me. I'm doing fine. It's evening here, so I'm already getting tired. Oh, well, we'll hopefully pick up the energy. You're a dynamic woman. You have a Remarkable story. I just told my listeners a little bit about you, Uhhuh.

So at this time we'll jump right in. I'm just gonna ask you one question before we get started. Sound good? Yes. All right, so people [00:03:00] from all around the world are listening right now. Some people have been with us since day one. Some people are new, but if they listen and hang through your episode, they're gonna get tons of gold along the way.

But if there's one message and one truth and one truth, four solution, just way they can get to victory in their life, what is it that you want to communicate to them today? Oh God. I wonder where the conversation is going to go. It depends so much on you because you know your audience. Right. But from what you was saying, I think the idea that came to my H head is that I don't profess truths and I do not know if we'll talk about that at all.

But I think I, I have really hard times using the word truth because I think truth is quite subjective. So that's, that's Just a side thought. It's never the main message of my stations, but it just crossed my mind as I was listening to you. So here it is. All right. So what would you want them? They listen to Christina's episode and at the end of this, what are they [00:04:00] inspired to do?

Y you know what? Here, I'll quote quote Haer. He's one of the teachers in our industry, and I remember when I attended his event for the first time, he said, don't believe a word I say. And it's just like, somehow, you know, your intro kind of takes me down this path. But I would say be inquisitive and question things.

Okay. Then at this time, let's get to all the good, the bad, the pretty, the ugly, the pretty ugly in your life that brought you to this point today where you find that message so important. So what was your upbringing like? Christina, where are you from? Hm. Good, bad, ugly. You know what? What made you who you are today?

Yeah. Well I was born in Soviet Union which seems to be a of a, of quite an interesting background. So I was born in Soviet Union. I was raised in Soviet Union. I was a teenager when it collapsed. And from there, my life took me all over the [00:05:00] world. I've lived in six countries and three continents.

In my life I mean, I've done that by about the age of 30, and since then I started sticking to to, to places, to, to countries and to cities. I really don't know how, how far back do you want me to go and how far in the future? So that's, that's just basically like your upbringing. Did you, were you raised by a mom and dad?

Were they divorced? Yes. I have a, I have a perfectly normal family. As in I have my mom and my dad. I still have them. Thank God. I had good relationship with my parents. I went to school. I wa I am a perfectionist and I studied really well. I did career very early, very quickly. So it's, it's an interesting mixture because sometimes people say I'm privileged and sometimes I think am I or am I not?

Of course, I'm definitely privileged to have a. Healthy family dynamics at home. I don't have sisters or brothers though. So I'm a little deprived in that department. But on the other hand, I was born in a country which was dysfunctional and which [00:06:00] collapsed, and I did go through a very dramatic transformation from from a communist country into a free democratic and nowadays even quite an affluent country, so it's.

It's an interesting mix of a background, but I think we all have pretty interesting stories if we, if we think about it. Yeah, absolutely. And when the change happened from the Soviet Union to Russia, how old were you roughly then? Well, the Soviet Union collapsed and Russia is one of the 15 countries, which seems to be still stuck in that past.

The other 14, actually not 14. Belarus, I think is in the same position moved on the way they knew. So I am from Estonia, I have noted drop of of Russian blood, which is also sometimes confusing because I speak Russian and I was born in Soviet Union, but I'm a Estonian. But I forgot your question because I got distracted.

By [00:07:00] by. It's ok. This is great because this is not something I'm an expert in and I love learning and your firsthand experience. So how old were you when the change took place? Oh, 14. 14. 14. So you were old enough to know a little bit of what's going on. Even more than that, I I was brought up in that mentality and by 14, your personality is quite quite formed.

Of course, maybe psychologists would say there are a few more years that are still crucial, but as a human being, you, you acquire your values and your worldview and definitely your beliefs by that age. I definitely understood what was going on. When the Soviet Union was collapsed collapsing, but I wasn't as engaged in politics, of course, at at at 14.

So I didn't r realize what dysfunctional country is going to is, is, is coming to an end. For me, it was just my my homeland. I, I did know a few things because, you know, there was [00:08:00] perro before that, so we got exposed to the outside world. So I knew for ex, for example, that I can't travel. Abroad, of course, Soviet Union was big enough.

So there, there was where to travel, but we couldn't go abroad to Europe, for example, anywhere. And another thing which I knew because we already saw some movies that people in the west lived left in, in more comfort than we did. So these two things I knew. But but things like democracy, human rights this was alien at that time.

Okay. And then so now you're a teenager. It's not just like your home. I mean, the whole world wish I was is changing. Yeah. Yeah. And then as you're growing up through school, you said you were a perfectionist, so studies came even though you had to work hard that was in place. Was there anything significant between your birth.

To, let's say, when you go to university, [00:09:00] anything out of the ordinary that is fundamental for where you are today, or we just move through it. Well, historically speaking, a whole, whole era changed. You know, the Cold War ended. Yeah. It was exactly in that period between me being a teenager and going to university.

Yes, I was a good student. And I guess my school years until the very end were pretty much the Soviet style education because of course they changed some things about the history. But the, the system doesn't change so much. I was, I. I was graduating like three, four years later, so we still lived in the same in the same paradigm.

And it was a different schooling system from what my, my children are going through right now. Definitely much more pragmatic maybe down to earth, but also incredibly well, I would say Limiting in a way. I, I actually can't really complain because I'm pretty happy with my education, but it was tough, it was hard.[00:10:00] 

We were there were really high expectations, so and then and then the university was already a new, new era and since I was a teenage, of course it was easy to adapt, I guess for the grow more mature people. It was a hard transition. But when you are still learning about life, then you have a chance to learn about a new life.

I made a career pretty quickly as I was still in university. I went to do my bachelor's. Takes five years and somewhere in the middle of my studies already started making career. And part of the reason was because Estonia, when we changed course decided that everybody who was in the government In Soviet days will not be allowed to lead the country for 10 years at least.

So we had no one to lead the country. So, and I studied, I studied public administration, so I ended up starting a career while I was working and it was such a funny time. At that time, our ministry of defense and Ministry of Education [00:11:00] were 27 year olds. So me making a career 21, 25 wasn't wasn't anything out of the ordinary.

But yes, I was pretty much, I had my life started on steroids very quickly, and then I got married, I moved to New York, and I had to start everything from zero again. Okay, well, that's a lot of information. Really quickly, let's, let's go back just a little bit. So you're 21, you're finishing university, you're getting involved in politics.

Like you said, it was just like steroids because you jumped in so fast and hard because the world was in flux. Your country was in flux when that was happening, and you're kind of finding yourself at the same time and what you love, what you don't love. Where was the course of your life heading? And then how did you meet your husband because did that alter the course or did it stay in the same projection?

You see I think a lot of us when we [00:12:00] grow up we don't really ask our ourself a question. Who I really, we like to do certain things. We don't like to do certain things. We kind of know what we like, what we don't like, but the younger people probably are not so obsessed with you know, what's the course of my life and this is my mission in Soviet Union we didn't have much of a choice.

A lot of things were predetermined. So because of that I did what I knew I had to do. I had to study well get a good degree, get married get a good job. So that was kind of pre predefined for me. Now I, I went to study what I enjoyed and I started a career where I, I enjoyed myself.

But I never questioned if that's what what my life is going to be about. The realization happened as I was moving through my life. Now, probably to give context why I went to study government work in, as I said, we couldn't travel in Soviet [00:13:00] days. So when I was a kid, I knew that I want to be either a journalist or a diplomat because these were the two careers that I thought would let me see the world.

So that's as, as far as I thought about my destiny in life. And I started on the path of of government work. But at, at that time, it wasn't important for traveling. It just kind of happened, you know, without conscious decision. Okay. And then along the line, you meet a man, you end up getting married.

You asked about vision. Yes. And then, and then to New York. That's a huge change too. Yeah, vision. Vision. We used to be married. We divorced a few years ago. We met when we were students when we were students. We were part of the same student organization called isac. And he he studied and worked in us worked for the student organization.

I studied in Estonia, but I, I also worked for the same organization, so we were [00:14:00] sent to the same events and we met as students at different events around the world. And that's okay. And then did your career path then We dated, then we dated for a few years. He lived in New York. I lived in Europe and it was expensive for students.

So he suggested that I move to New York cause that's the tradition, you know, a woman moves after a man. So I didn't question the move per se. I just said that I won't I won't leave everything behind my friends, my family, my career and just come as a girlfriend. So that was the reason why we decided to get married.

Okay. And then had you been to New York to visit or was this all the first time? Yeah, I, I, I visited vision. I mean, when we dated, I visited New York. I loved New York. Okay. Yeah. Cause that's a culture shock even within America. New York's a great, new York's a great place, but if you're not used to it, it can be rough.

So I ac I actually enjoyed my life in New York. I feel I'm a more of a New York type of person. [00:15:00] Before that I had lived already by then in Belarus, where I was born Stony, obviously both are small places and Oslo, which is also actually pretty small. So New York was the first big city. Okay. And then once you landed in New York, where does your life take you from there?

So since vision is a foreigner himself, so his visa didn't give me the right to work. I was on a social visa without the right to, to seek employment, which was the hard part. So I did some odd jobs for some companies in Estonia. I guess freelancing wasn't as, as popular then, but I, I earned a little bit of money, but it was quite intense both in terms of me not, not earning enough because you know, how much freelance work in Eastern Europe at that time, 20 years ago, it was like huge economic difference between Estonia and us.

So, [00:16:00] so that dependency was tough. And also since I left a pretty thriving career it was a little demoralizing to realize that people don't want you. So I ended up actually applying for a master's degree in university in Edinburgh. And and reevaluating myself. And then was it an on, there was no real online back then when you and I were No, no.

I went 20th. I, I went to live in Edinburgh. Yeah. Okay. And did your husband stay in New York or did he come with you? He, no, we had moved so it's a bit messy, but we had moved to Malaysia by then. And he was traveling between Malaysia and Edinburgh. So we, we did a long distance marriage for a year.

Gotcha. Okay. But it, it wasn't so tough. I mean, it's just one year. And you're probably occupied with schooling at this point, so it flies, right. It was fun. It was definitely fun. Yeah. I wish I had, I had [00:17:00] done my bachelor's there rather than masters. It lasts longer. Nice. So when you were figuring out, you know, so we kind of jumped cuz my question was gonna be, you know, you have high skills.

Mm-hmm. You've already achieved a lot in life. You moved to New York so. How did you learn to deal with that and adapt? But it sounds like you changed your environment. You moved to Malaysia and went to Edinburgh. Is that correct? Well I wouldn't say that I ran away from that change. There were some decisions in our life which had to, and I wasn't saying run away, I just meant you said, Hey, here's my situation.

We're gonna fix it. Boom. I didn't mean you were running, I meant you were changing. I, I, and I'm not taking it personally. It's fine. Oh, okay. I just wanna make sure if I'm gonna offend you, I want to be clear about it. That wasn't meant to be. Yeah. So no, I, what I'm saying is that We, the, the move was dictated by another circumstance because Vish is Malaysian [00:18:00] by origin.

So his passport coming from a Muslim country, you know, it was 2003 2000. So it was a tough time. And we, we thought it was easier for us to be back in his home country, Malaysia with his big family there. And, and just thought everything there. And by then, Vish had lived in New York. For, I mean, not New York in US for 10 years.

So it was a huge change for both of us. For me, maybe not so much because I only spent one year in New York and I in in that one year. I learned, I learned that sometimes all your achievements of your whole life mean nothing and you have to start from zero. But you see I was 25, 26. It wasn't very painful.

I think at that time we are a little bit more adaptable and and it's easier to to heal your wounds. But also maybe my background of having survived Soviet Union collapse also cha helped because things like I've, I've never been on solid [00:19:00] grounds. Mm-hmm. Things, things have been changing all the time, but they have been changing for everyone.

It's just that people usually refuse to see that or to, to acknowledge the fact that everything is changing. So I was probably just, just more at peace with the fact that things change now. And with, with changing decorations in countries, you still have to adapt because no matter where you face your challenges The, the, the one person who really matters, you can't run away from that person.

It's myself. So whether I stayed in New York or I moved to Malaysia where I also was not allowed to work, or I moved to Edinburgh and, and had to start again from scratch whatever problems were there, there was still there just in new decorations. Yes, a hundred percent. It's just there's always a challenge and we're always growing or we're dying.

There's no in between. Right? True. So it's like either move forward or move back, [00:20:00] but it's, there's gonna be hardship whether you're a, or maybe, or maybe you can be mummified for generations. I don't know. No, I don't know. I think people will cryogenically like Walt Walt Disney's head supposedly frozen in Disney World, right?

Oh, he's still dead. He's still dead. No, but I mean, if you're poor, you have problems. If you're rich, you have problems. If you're in the middle, you have problems. Everybody's got problems. So you are now in Edinburgh, you finished this degree, had a blast, where's your life? Go from there. Then I came back to Malaysia and I felt kind of I really don't know what happened.

I suddenly decided that I needed to have a child. So being a perfectionist, I, I started on this project and literally a few weeks later, I had my positive pregnancy test. But that's where it ended. So, I mean, my determination. So yes, I, I had a child and things changed again. I delivered my first child in Estonia.

Well, [00:21:00] meanwhile, I, I wanted to move to Oxford, so I had a little a short period of work in Oxford as well. And then, yeah. And your husband was still traveling at this point, or was he static with you? No, we were, we were traveling back and forth. Okay. Okay. But I wasn't, I, I was in Oxford alone. He, he of course, of course, came to Estonia when my, my first child was born.

And I stayed in Estonia for about half a year. And then I came back to Malaysia and I think I was still searching myself because I remember quite clearly When my kid was one year old, we went for the training that I just actually, in the beginning of our interview, I, I quoted it it was Havas training and he started it by saying, don't believe the word I say.

And I actually hated that training. Vision. Vision insisted that I come, I hated it for half a day. For half of it, it was four day training. And, and the first two days I hated it. And everyone who was involved in that and I was at that stage where actually I. I didn't enjoy being in [00:22:00] Asia because I'm very European at heart and it was just so different.

But it was sometime during that training that I had this feeling that Maybe it was the day when my son learned to walk. He was with us. He learned to walk and I looked at him and I, I thought he's going to go to school and probably is going to happen in Malaysia, which means that Malaysia is my home now.

And doesn't it make sense to like it rather than hate it? And I guess that was one of the turning points in, in my life where I just stopped running away. And was that a conscious working to that moment or did it just evolve naturally in your life? It was it was a spontaneous decision and I I decided on the spot that it's really stupid to hate the country where you're supposed to live.

And surprisingly, the last two days of the trainings I loved, I think it was one of the best trainings I've done in our industry. And that was long time ago. It's truly, it was spectacular. It's so it just really came down to [00:23:00] your mindset and attitude. It was just a decision. Yeah. If you really set your heart at it, you can choose whatever you like.

Then how would you, for the people listening, let's make that a first kind of talking point. Mm-hmm. For the people who are struggling, they're miserable in their situation, what advice would you give 'em or what practical steps to break free would you give them? You see transformation is not the thing that you can, will and knowledge is not the thing that changes your life, unfortunately.

So very often for people who are struggling it is a journey that they have to take and And they will get their transformation when they're ready for that. Now, my fr friend of mine has this interesting saying. She says you can't see the stars from the bottom of a ditch. And very often if you're really struggling, you have to get out of the ditch first before you start [00:24:00] going for the stars.

And here I would say, You know, it's, it, it's hard to give diagnosis to to a big group of people with such ambiguous qualifications. You know, different people can struggle for different reason. Well, I would even say that everybody struggles with something. We all have our suffering. But let's say if it is an emotional struggle, I would strongly recommend professional help, actually, you know, to get out of the ditch before you, you go for anything bigger than that.

Yeah, I think that's well said. Very well said. Cuz there's some things, you know, the Bible says is iron sharpened iron. So the man accountants of his friend, and we all know that we can do a lot on our own, but it's so much easier when we have someone to help us in the flesh. You know, God's always there and he loves us and sometimes he ha we have to work through our problems.

But sometimes it's a lot easier with help, especially outside help, like you're talking about a third party that's, they're care enough to want to help you. So, But they're not [00:25:00] attached to the problem where they're gonna give you biased advice. And also a lot of our problems are actually solvable. You know, we, we think that person growth transformation is a young industry, but it's not truly, if you look at the origins of let's say even our literature, some of the ancient, you know philosophers and writers, they were in essence also personal growth teachers.

So there is nothing new no new problems in this, in, in our society. Well, maybe apart from the global problems, but when it, when it comes in the human level a lot of the things quite easy to solve. If you only ask for help properly. For example, a very, maybe a little detached example. I had problems with my kid.

Kids being too much on iPad at some point when he was younger. And I know a lot of parents struggle with that, but I went on Google and I researched and asked some of my psychologist friends, friends who you know [00:26:00] folk specialize in childhood psychology. And I discovered that there are there are rules and mechanisms and tricks and, and different ways to deal with that, that are already set out there.

All you have to do is try. And it's solvable, and you don't have to really bang your head on the brick wall wondering, what do I do? Just ask for help. There are so many answers to literally almost any problem out there. Yeah, I agree. I think almost everything, if you strive hard enough and. You know, you do it the right way.

There's an answer. Some problems, there's some things you can't control and you gotta accept. But I agree with you. The majority has pro problems, quote unquote opportunities, whatever you wanna call it. They have solutions. So I think that's great advice. Yeah, you can't, you can't control the circumstances or the events in your life, but the, the event in itself isn't a problem.

Usually your reaction to that event is a problem. So let's take business for, as an example, like if you have hard times in business, [00:27:00] That, that hardship in business is not necessarily your problem. Your problem is the worry about the future. Your problem is the anxiety that you're feeling connected to that.

And if you, if your state changes, you might see the problem not as a problem, but as a challenge, as a as something to solve. You maybe, and, and probably I'm talking to a narrower audience right now, but if, if if in your audience there were people who have started businesses safe 10 fif 15 years ago, they might remember the time when they were starting it, when they were still exciting, excited.

A lot of the things didn't seem like like problems that will rob you off your sleeve, they seemed just as something excited to do. Mm-hmm. So, very often our reaction to the problem is a much bigger thing to solve than the situation itself. Very true. Very true. So how do you help people pull [00:28:00] away the distractions and cut to the core of what they need to focus on to get to that resolution?

That is a long journey, I guess for us as a, as a society because unfortunately we'll live in the Microdose society, and I'm not using it as in psychedelics right now. I'm using it in terms of information and entertainment education. Everything is microdosed. And in fact, specialists will tell, will tell you that you have to you have to be very superficial, be very fast, be very quick, but things, you know, sometimes require dedication and commitment.

So a very good friend of mine says and I think it's one of the wisest thoughts. She says, life is simple and deep, but we make it shallow and complicated. Very often because of our tendency to microdose, to be on the surface, to find a [00:29:00] shortcut, to make it quick, you know, elevator pitch very often because we try to simplify life.

What what we get is the exact opposite would make it complicated. And when we are willing to commit and to go deep, things become simple and clear. And that's, I think the biggest problem in our contemporary society is that we have unlearned. To go deep with everything. And it's, it's like we live in a society of cliffhangers.

Nothing is, nothing is to end. There's always to be an open ending, you know, always to be a question left. Of course. What are, what are we programming ourselves into? Yeah. I, in so many aspects of life, I couldn't agree with you more because I. And man, it translates too in such a bigger picture because you have people who, they're almost praised and rewarded for the [00:30:00] superficial flash in the pan.

The things that don't matter, like the truly unimportant things in life are praised. And then the stuff that's really deep and is life changing, but takes effort to get there. People don't wanna put the work in. And it goes unnoticed. And I, like, I make a joke with, you know, it's kind of crude, but I'm like, you can put a cat farting on the internet and it's gonna get a million views.

And you have someone literally sharing their heart solving world peace. And it's like five, five clicks. It's like our, our society just wants to see people in bikinis or cats and just superficial crap like you're talking about. Yeah, and it's consumerism and it's widest meaning of the word. We are so used to just gloat everything.

And you know, the statistics research and, and that's an old one actually that says that our ability to read long texts have gone down so much. It's, we used to be able to read [00:31:00] like sick books. Now we barely can read to the end of an article. Yeah. Have you picked up an I Oh, there's two books I picked up and I was like, whoa.

Like I picked up Time Machine by Orwell. Have you read that? Oh, well, sorry. Yeah. No, no, I haven't read, read it. Okay. I'm gonna be blunt, I mean transparent here. You can be blunt. It's fine. I would consider myself a little bit in for the American standard of reading. I am probably more well read than most.

I picked up that book and I think I had to use a dictionary on every page to make sure I had the right, like within the connotation, I could figure out what he was saying. But there was words from just a few years ago that we never use in our culture, and I'm like, I feel stupid. But you know, you, you forced through it and you read, but it's such a higher level of thought and intellect just a couple [00:32:00] generations ago.

Mm. And now we're so dumbed down. Like you said, we can't even read a long text. That's why I love our audience in the community for this podcast. We have listeners from over a hundred countries regularly around the world. Mm-hmm. And everybody's like, oh, don't do long format. Don't do long format. And everybody's like, when you write a write a blog post, oh, keep it short.

Keep it short. I'm like, you know what? Really, I want to communicate with our audience and our people. And I don't want the people who aren't gonna, who are looking for shortcuts. We want the people who are gonna stick with it and achieve things in life for God's glory and their joy and peace. And and then I look back at the results.

They're flashing, the pan stuff's gone and they're struggling and we're slowly but steady growing. And that's, it's, it takes fortitude to stay true to yourself. For sure. Yeah. But that's what you're doing too, so. Mm-hmm. When you look at these situations and you have big decisions, life decisions, you're jumping countries and and societal norms, what are [00:33:00] the things you recommend to our audience to say, this is who I am.

Mm-hmm. And I'm gonna stick to it. So I'll, I'll first comment a little bit on what you were saying because I, I, I, it's so relatable and I, I know English is not my first language, so probably I'm excused for that. But I remember when I was reading Jane Austen for the first time, it took me a day to read one page because I literally had to, I had to look into every word almost every word on the, on the page.

And by then I spoke English, by the way. But the funny thing was that so Vian Vian is a native speaking in English. At some point he started, he, we were in the phase of dating, so we were emailing and he said, Christina, can you please use contemporary English? Because I stopped understanding your emails.

So I guess, I guess it's normal. It's fine. But I have, I, I too have been asked to use simpler language. To use simpler words, not to use terminology too much. So I, I understand now when it [00:34:00] comes to. When it comes to changing environments and staying true to yourself, it's a balance for many reasons.

First of all, when you change environments and you come with your own rules I wonder how. Respectful is that of that environment where you are. And it's not only all about respect, but sometimes, you know, some systems they operate the way they are. And even if they're not ideal or perfect, just coming with a sledge hammer, hammer is not going to change the system because you will break it rather than help it adjust.

And it's, it's a topic in itself, which is very interesting. But I'll give a very simple example. So. When I started my career in Estonia, I was doing pr. So I had you know, I had exposure to journalism and the way, the way the problems are being being reported. And that was after the Soviet Union had collapsed.

So the realization that you can freely express anything that you want was very keen on us. We really [00:35:00] felt blessed to be able to finally say what we, we want to say and criticize whoever would like to criticize. Because in Soviet Union, obviously that was punishable. You couldn't do that. Then I moved to, Malaysia and I started working for an ngo.

So we were dealing with things which were not fashionable and not strictly speaking, supported by the government. They, it, it, it was a, like a, a gray area. It was I was, I was working with refugees and, and and people in fact with H I V, so it's, you know, there was marginal areas and I did PR as well, and we had to sensor ourselves.

And I remember I was, as a young, young person, 20 something year old, I was so indignant. I was wondering, why, why would I do that? I just came out of the environment where the government was censoring me. Why would I censor myself? Could I at least try to express myself the way I think is right and then see if it, if it flies.

And I remember my first tears in the office because I was told to shut up and [00:36:00] stop rocking the boat. It was so painful for me to to go back and it took years and some wisdom to realize that sometimes when you are being too blunt, you are risking not being heard at all. Sometimes for the change, you need to be the little drop on their stone.

You need to do it steadily, but maybe in, well, those same micro doses that I was just ranting against but do it steadily. And in those doses that which are palatable for people. So when it comes to staying true to your values it is a delicate balance between, you know, when, how much are you willing to tolerate and it allows you to still stay true to yourself and how much do you express your values so that you don't break the system, but you actually helped.

Help it to change. But again, maybe that's a little too [00:37:00] Deep view into that because most of us, when, when we change our environments, we don't really go from fully democratic free speech country to say a country where where free speech is punishable except maybe Russia. But normally we don't, we don't do that transition in our lives.

So maybe you don't need this kind of advice and warning. But I would say having lived all over the world, that it is wise to have patience and to observe. And then make your decisions based on your values. And if you can't be in that place without you know, swinging a sledgehammer, then maybe the best choice is to leave the place.

I couldn't agree more. And the Bible lines up with that. There's a verse that talks about a soft answer, turneth away wrath, but grievous words stir up anger. And that's exactly what you're saying. It's not that you're changing who you are, what you believe, but you're being meek and you're delivering it timely and the right way.

So that's super wise, as always. Thank you, so, okay. Yeah, no, I love talking to you. It's, it's a [00:38:00] great conversation. So now we're going back to your story and you're in, you have one child at this point. Mm-hmm. And you're about to, you left Malaysia, went to Oxford. Where does your life go from there?

Christina? So I, as I was pregnant, I was yes, trying to return back to Europe. And when Hayden was born, Hayden was my oldest child. I stayed in Estonia for a few months, but then I came back to Malaysia because that's, that's where I lived. And I had this realization that this is my home now. So I, I was very comfortable in Malaysia.

Sorry. Doing my work living my life being fully immersed in my new family and trying to make sense out of the country, which was so different from everything that I knew before. And I think it was quite steady until until well probably divorce. [00:39:00] It just came along at some point and then Covid happened and then I finally moved back to Estonia where I am right now.

And it's a work in progress. Okay. Now wait, I'm confused cuz we had some off camera conversations. Did you have a second child? Yes, yes, yes, I have. But that was that was in that period, which was I was steadily in Malaysia doing the same thing, living with the same people, having the same kind of, it, it, it wasn't anything anything out of the ordinary.

I, I had hard times getting pregnant for the second time. So there was a little bit of struggle with that, but, My daughter was born six years after my son, and yeah, and my life was since the birth of my son and my decision to enjoy the country where I live until until COVID I was quite happily rooted in Malaysia, living my life there and [00:40:00] thinking that that's, that's where I spend the rest of my life.

And what were you doing? So after the divorce, you got two beautiful children in Malaysia. That, that is a parallel story. We started Mindvalley in 2003 when we lived in Malaysia. Oh, sorry. In New York. When we moved to Malaysia, we started an office there. We started hiring people. So I. As a co-founder of Mindvalley, I was working during that period of time, I was mostly working in Mindvalley.

We have a fairly good sized office there. Some colleagues, we made friends, had parties, you know, the regular, regular life of regular people. All right. And then so now with the Mine Valley, are you continue from? Yes. Covid bring us to Covid to today. So, yeah, Mindvalley Mindvalley is where I still work, and that's it wasn't a choice again.

It I started helping vision with Mindvalley when I was still trying to find my own [00:41:00] way. But sometimes, sometimes we find the path unconsciously, and at some point in my life, I dropped everything else I was doing and dedicated myself fully to Mindvalley and And as I said, along the way, me and Vision decided to part ways, but only his husband and his wife and and wife.

We, we still lived nearby and have family together and traveled together and worked together. So not much changed there, but then Covid hit and Malaysia regulations were very strict on Covid. And for years I've been suffering from You know, in Asia, the environment is quite polluted and it's, it's been a little hard sometimes.

We had haze, which like for weeks you wouldn't be able to see across the street because of this dense fog. So I, I did want to go back to Europe, although I did li I, I still love my life in Malaysia, but I wanted to go back to Europe and when Covid happened and we understood that it is going to be for a long [00:42:00] time and Rules were very, very restrictive in Malaysia.

We had to give up dog because we couldn't walk the dog. We couldn't step out of the house at all, even to go to the shops. It was, it was probably one of the most strictest regulations in the world. So I thought I'll just I'll just use this this. Time when I still have very high motivation to, to make a change and go back to Estonia where there are fewer people, more space and clean environment that which I did.

And then you took your kids with you? Yes. And then did he move also or did he stay in Yeah, V is also Vi Vian, also moved to Estonia. We, we moved, as I said, we not much has changed in our interaction except that we are not husband and wife, but we, we do travel. I mean, we move countries as a family still, although we, we live separately.

Yes. I forgot what I was answering. No, that's okay. I was just saying, did he [00:43:00] move with you or is still in Malaysia? Yes, he did. He did. And then now, so, and the kids moved as well? Yes. For the kids, it was a huge change. Yes. And then once you got to Estonia, has everybody adapt and they're happy with the decision?

Yeah. Yeah. We, we had a, an amazing school in Malaysia, and of course life there was very comfortable in terms of I mean, it's, it's a Asian countries. I have four people working for me in the home. I never, I, for 16 years, I had not been to a grocery shop or done my beds in the morning. That was a little bit of an adjustment.

But apart from these two aspects and warm climate I am, I'm happier here for sure. Good. Now, In my mind, you know, there's people who get divorced sadly every day, and it's never, you know, a great situation. But it sounds like you're making it the best possible, but how do you make it [00:44:00] work, working with your ex?

Like is there still, like, is it get tense at times? Have you guys, like how did you learn to work together but not be married? Well Our dynamics at work hasn't changed much. I guess, if anything, our, our arguments are not as heated because there's this one aspect which is missing now. For example the, the entitlement aspect when we were married, I would sometimes expect certain things from just because he's my husband, but you're my husband.

You're supposed to do like this. Now, that expectation and that entitlement is gone. We actually a little bit on more equal footing when we have any kind of arguments. So I think it's healthy. In fact I wish I had learned that while we were married because I would have spare as quite a lot of arguments.

But when it comes to any changes, life changes, it's, it's in your intention, right? I thought we were revolutionary in the way we were divorcing, but a lot of my [00:45:00] friends, they shared stories of their friends who had similar experiences. So it very much depends on the intention of the two parties, or at least one of the parties.

What is your intention? Do you want to just to solve this one aspect of your life and try to move on or have, you know, have a goal to make it, to, to keep it normal, to keep it healthy? Or are you going to be focused on on proving another person wrong or proving another person that they have, you know, have wronged you in some way and, and maybe punishing them or rearranging them?

Unfortunately, a lot of the times our divorces are messy and nasty because we are trying. To teach another side some kind of lesson. Yeah, no, I can understand that. And I also think it's a lot of hurt. Sometimes the other party really hurts you at a deep level, so then you're left with how do you deal with it and you know, you don't want to be friends with them.

They're not someone you want to be with. So it's, it's very delicate. I just didn't know if, when you guys well, You know [00:46:00] what I will I, I will give a slightly gory analogy, but, you know when a baby is born, we, we, we have the picture of mother suffering intense physical pain. But scientists insist that a child also experiencing si same level of intense pain.

So very often when you're hurting another p hard part is also hurting. So, Hurt people, hurt people. People don't hurt you when they're happy. Mm-hmm. And we, we very often forget it. We take it personally. We think that I'm the one who is suffering. The other person is just being mean. And and I, I do that too, of course.

When my emotions are high. That's my natural explanation, that you are the one who is mean, you're the one who's brute, and I'm the one who is suffering. But in reality, if the person treats you this way, that comes from intense pain as well. We just don't know their pain and we might not be the reason of their pain, but it also comes from pain.

And I think [00:47:00] forgiveness is possible almost in any kind of circumstances. Of course, I'm not talking about extreme cases, and that's the interesting thing. When we discuss life, we very often bring up extreme cases, but most of our divorces are not extreme. Most of that, most of the situations are quite mundane.

And yes, even if your partner was toxic and manipulative and narcissistic, even that is quite normal. It's, it's just the way people are narcissism is not just the way people are, but a lot of our reactions are manipulative in essence. So we are being human, that's all. And yes, sometimes, sometimes there are nearly criminal you know, behavior and violence.

And then that, that is a different story. But for that, we have professionals who deal with domestic violence and in that case, go to a professional. And yes, that's not the place where you might, you might not be safe to stay friends, but most, most of us just regular human beings just living regular life, just feeling regular pain and yet we, [00:48:00] we very often dramatize it to the point where another person is almost criminal in our eyes.

Yes. And I, I mean, there's always scenarios, a different case to case, but the, the point I was getting at is any divorce, you're obviously getting divorced for a reason. And to work alongside that someone simultaneously while you're getting a divorce. That's just hard for my brain to process. That's why I didn't know if you had any tips for people going through divorces of how to handle it better or how to deal with it, how to resolve it.

Well, my suggestion would be to read the book by Catherine Woodward Thomas who coined the idea of conscious and coupling. And she gives a really good framework for that. She works both with people who go through this conscious and conflict process as a couple. So both of them have the intention, but she also works with people who have been you know, who, who are alone in that process.

And there are other parties either not willing or, you know, [00:49:00] All the scenarios. So that would be my, my professional advice to this kind, kind of circumstances. But a little bit bought a little bit more philosophical take on that is that, you know, it's just another separation. It's just the other end of the chapter.

When you were a child, you live with your parents, you grew up, you went to university, you left them. It's in a way, it is a little divorce with someone that you really loved. When your child grows up and leaves you, it's a, in a way, it's a little divorce. You dissolve a partnership. You leave the company, we do these partings left and right.

It's just that when they're not so personal, or let's say when, you know, our romantic expectations are not engaged in that somehow emotions are a little bit more reasonable. So take it as. Just an end of a chapter, not, not a disaster, not not something to scratch off your life's experience. Yeah, and I think that really goes back to your worldview because to have the worldview where you come at marriage, where it's a [00:50:00] vow to God, commitment for life, never to change, just figure out how to make it work.

That is a different scenario than someone who says, I'm gonna do my best and we'll see if it works. Or it's a new chapter. See what I'm saying? That the how you enter the marriage is gonna definitely affect how you leave the marriage. I wouldn't, I wouldn't judge people for divorcing because I wouldn't say, I actually still believe in true love for life.

It's just that it obviously didn't work out for me. And a lot of people when they go through separation you know, it might not be their choice. It might be their choice. They might you know, they might not have, not have another choice. So we don't always get to choose what happens to us.

Divorce included, no matter how determined you're about it, which we always get to choose how to react to what happens to us. Mm-hmm. And I'm loosely quoting Gand said, we don't get to choose the times when we live, but we always get to choose what to do with the times that we are given. And that's, that's a very wise quote, by the [00:51:00] way.

Yeah, I know, right. All right, well, Christina, between your birth and today, is there anything that we missed in your story that you want to share? Oh, definitely, definitely. But if we missed it, probably this for a reason. All right. But is there anything significant that made you the woman you are today that you want to talk about?

Every single day I have this weird brain where I I take every single day as an opportunity to learn something about myself. About my values, about my life, about the way I interact with life, and it's still a work in progress. As I said, you, you're never ready. We, as we grow, we face other problems. I'm 45 now, and I'm facing the, the question of what, what is, you know, what is time?

What is aging? What is parting the ultimate parting in life? And it's, I I do not know. I mean, I, I, I know exactly when, when it all ends, but I don't want to think about it. Yeah, and it's D again, we're all trying to seek [00:52:00] that, that answer that truth, that this is a short. Short life and then what happens for eternity?

So I believe from the Bible, like it's a point on demand once to die, then the judgment. So we get our little interview down for, you know, average 70, 80 years on Earth. And when that's done we go and see God. And you know, if you ch make. The choice to trust them. You're good to go for eternity. If you're rejecting them, it's gonna be hot.

But I mean, everybody has a different belief system. That's just my belief system ties to the Bible. But it's definitely, you're at 45 you said. So you're still young. You got plenty of time statistically, so hopefully you find that answer in peace. Yes. I, I, I'm trusting the time and the wisdom of the time.

Yeah. So now let's talk about today. Where is Christina today? Where are you heading and how can we as a community help you get there? I. Today I'm in Estonia, but that's not the case the day after tomorrow. [00:53:00] Today I'm in Estonia. And yeah, my book is coming out in June, June 13th. And that's going to be new, exciting chapter in my life.

I'll have to tour us for a long time. And I think I'm, you know, it's, I'm excited about that, but I'm also excited about when it's all over and it's Christmas time and I'll sit down with my. A cup of hot tea in front of fire and enjoy the peace and quiet I am, I think introvert by nature. Very good. Now, where are you gonna be in the US tour for P?

Is there a website people can go to to check out where you're at if they want to meet you in person? Oh, that's a very good idea. Well, there will be. Now go to, no, there will be. So of course there's a website for my book, which is mindvalley.com/flawsome. Flawsome is an unusual words, so unless you give the notes, we'll put it in the show notes.

We'll put it in the show notes. So the, and, and I believe somewhere there I'll, I'll be probably providing [00:54:00] information about the tour. We are planning a tour for about three months, so there will be 10 to 15 cities depending on how, how well we squeeze it. It will definitely be New York, end of June and LA in July.

And then from there all the major markets in us. And yes, we'll have events we'll probably mail at least mine value audiences in those cities. And yeah, it's, it's going to be a big thing and it'll be scary. Very good. Now talk about Mindvalley. That's a company you and your husband started. Yeah.

You're still part of it. What is Mindvalley and what's your role? So Mindvalley, I'm a, I'm a co-founder and I've been in different roles in Mindvalley, obviously over the 20 years. But right now I'm more of a of one of those co-founders who's not very much engaged in everyday life. It's it's the world's probably biggest platform per personal growth and transformation.

Online. We work with some of the biggest teachers, biggest themes in our industry, or pretty much with anyone. And anyone as in, in you [00:55:00] can think of all the big names, and we've worked with them on, they've sp spoken in our stages. We, we provide education in those areas where, you know, academic education is failing us.

Areas about life, spirituality, health, relationships happiness, all those important things in life. Very good. Very good. And we'll put a link to mind value that show notes as well. But other than you got your book, that's huge. You're gonna be, we'll put a link in the show notes to that. Yeah. Anything else?

If someone wants to get ahold of you, what's the best way to reach you? So on, on all social media I'm at the handle, Christina Mangan. My name is spelled in Estonian, so it might be, you might check the notes for that. So Christina man is is on social media, Instagram, Facebook you YouTube, I think LinkedIn, everything.

I'm, I'm all there. But apart from that, I'm also building a museum and I have started a farm since we are talking about my life in [00:56:00] general. So I'll say that too. Yeah, you got nothing going on. You might as well start a farm, right? Yeah. All right. Awesome. Well, it's been a great honor to be with you today, Christina.

Ladies and gentlemen, like we've said since day one of the podcast, don't just listen to this great content advice. It's Christina's brought today, but do it. Repeat it each day so you can have a great life in this world, but most importantly, an attorney to come. So Christina, thank you again for being on the show and hanging out with us today.

Thank you for having me and for this wonderful conversation. Oh yeah, it's been a true honor and maybe we'll catch you when you're in the States. Thank you. Ladies and gentlemen, we love you. Check out some more episodes. Share it with your friends. Send it all over the place. Not so we can get famous, but so we can help the world grow and together we can just be better people.

We love you and we'll see you in the next episode. Ciao.

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