Zack Rutledge | Forgiving, Accepting, & Loving Ourselves (and Others) while Stopping Self Sabotage | E64

EPISODE OVERVIEW: 

Have you heard the one about the guy who holds multiple advanced degrees, is a personal trainer, yoga instructor, author, and learned to beat his anxiety, depression, and PTSD? You know, the one who gets everyone he meets excited about healing and wellness, and inspires them to grow in the areas that they're hurting.

Whether you are facing physical, mental, or emotional pain, this weeks episode will be a catalyst for us all to help us examine our foundation, and really evaluate where we are at. Plus, this weeks guest helps us identify and know what we need to do next to heal and thrive with practical steps. Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to the Zack S Rutledge story!

GUEST BIO: 

Zack S. Rutledge is an ACE Certified Personal Trainer, an ACE Certified Fitness Nutrition Specialist, and a Certified Brain Health Trainer through the Functional Aging Institute. He has a black belt in karate and has practiced yoga for almost a decade. He holds an MA from American University in Washington, D.C. and starts his Licensed Professional Counselor program in January 2022.

FEATURED QUOTE(S): 

• "Everything just seemed black and white. I finally felt the colors again." - Zack S. Rutledge

EPISODE PROUDLY SPONSORED BY: 

• Pam Heinold, Better Homes and Gardens Real Estate – Pensacola, Florida (850)232-2332

SHOW NOTES:  SPECIAL OFFERS, LINKS, GUEST CONTACT INFO, & OTHER RESOURCES MENTIONED:

Contact Info:

• Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/theofficialdepressionreliefplaybook/ 

Special Offer(s):

• Email Zack at ZackSRutledge@gmail.com for a free chapter of the book! :)

Zack's Special "Hangry Tamer" Shake Recipe:

• 1 whole banana
• 1/2 cup of mixed frozen berries
• 1 heaping teaspoon of natural peanut butter (no additives other than salt)
• 1 dash of cinnamon
• 1 to 2 heaping teaspoon(s) pure cocoa powder
• unsweetened almond/coconut milk (fill to preferred viscosity)
• (optional) ½ an avocado

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Transcript

Zack Rutledge | Forgiving, Accepting, & Loving Ourselves (and Others) while Stopping Self Sabotage | E64

Hello friends! I'm David Pasqualone and welcome to this week's episode of the Remarkable People Podcast, The Zack Rutledge story. 

This week, Zach is a personal trainer. He's a yoga instructor. He has a advanced degree. He is an author. He has all sorts of accolades and achievements, but we're going to take this week to talk about anxiety and depression and PTSD, and we go.

All over [00:01:00] the place. I even get into a couple of my personal rants, but this week is packed with what I think is great illustrations and graphics. Points and great life tips and advice, not just to get you thinking about healing and wellness and growing in the ways that we're hurting, it could be physical.

It could be mental, it could be emotional. This week will be kind of a. Catalyst it's like taking the foundation and really evaluating where are we at and what do we need? And then giving us those practical steps to start towards the healing and getting the assistance we need, because we're not here to do it alone.

You know, as iron sharpens, iron sodas, the man, the countenance of his friend, and you know, it's not good that man should be alone. These are biblical true concepts. All biblical concepts are true, but these are true concepts. [00:02:00] And man means mankind, not man like male. So this episode was Zack was one that I had fun with it.

Informative. It made me think, and it's also going to get us to act and that's, what's important. Like our slogan says let's just not just listen, but to do the knowledge and to repeat it each day so we can have a great life in this world and in the next, so get ready for an amazing episode with Zach before this episode, a couple of quick things, number one, we love you.

Glad you're here. Number two, hope you love the episode as much as I did. And then please share it on your social media, like in an apple podcast and tell your friends about it. Number three, at the end of this, there's a special offer from Zach. So don't be afraid to stick around and listen to the offer and get as much as you can out of this, because that's what we're [00:03:00] here for to help each other grow and to move forward 

See you soon.

Part 4 INTERVIEW  E64 Zach Rutledge  Rebuilding Our Lives How to Use Microgoals to Start Beating Depression Anxiety and PTSD: [00:03:06] Hey Zach, how are you today, brother? I'm doing really well. How are you, man? I'm doing fantastic. Like you and I were discussing before this episode feel a little tired, but overall life's good, man.

You had a rough weekend. You said physically? Yeah, physically and a little bit mentally taxing. I'm finishing up a I'm a yoga teacher. So these are pretty long days where we're, we're, it's kind of drinking from a fire hose type deal. And we're, we're getting a lot of information. We're also practicing a lot.

So, you know, I'm, I'm pretty sore, but feeling good. Yeah. And for our listeners, you're in for a special treat. Zach's not only a yoga coach and an author and a personal trainer. There's so much more to a story that you're about to hear, like we talked about in the intro, but if you're not familiar with yoga, it's like, oh, what's yoga, little stretching, little poses.

No, it's super tough, man. And the higher you get, the harder it gets. So [00:04:00] when you're listening to Zach, you'll understand more, probably the pain he's in as we go through. Today's Zach, like our listeners know w our episodes go deep and wide. We're going to really, you know, focus this episode on your story.

And I know it touches a lot on PTSD and depression, anxiety, and self image. So you, at this time, man, take the episode. Where did Zach come from? What was his upbringing? Like? What made you it, the journey and the facts, the man you are today, and then let's just share your story. And if we can help you at the end, we're going to transition to where you are and where you're going and that way our community just helps each other sound good.

Great. Thank you. All right, buddy. So where Zach, where were you born? Brother? Tell us a story. Yeah, so I was born in New Jersey and I had like a very stable childhood, you know upper [00:05:00] middle-class middle-class childhood, a very you know, loving family. Everything was pretty good on, you know, externally, right.

In hindsight, There were some like chemical issues, I guess you could call it up, looking back to some things. Like I took things a little harder than other people, and I kind of struggled with certain things, but for the most part, all was good. As I got a little older, noticed a few things kind of spiraling, not radically out of control, but I noticed like I started taking things a little harder than I should have.

You know, things like normal teenage things like breakups, things like that. Now when things really got out of hand, or I guess when the, the catalyst of my story was actually the summer after high school, my best friend was killed. And that was kind of like the perfect storm so to speak. So it was like, you know, that was happening.

[00:06:00] Which was obviously devastating, but it was also, this was pre social media, all, not that it really matters, but it was even harder to keep in touch and all of my friends left. Right. So my entire support system was gone. So I was really left alone, going to college, not knowing anybody, you know, two weeks after.

And at the same time my karate school closed. So I was really, really, oh man, I had just earned a black belt in karate. And so that was it. I was on my own. And just to put a frame, not to interpret, but to put our frame of reference, we have listeners from all over the world and if you're not American based the traditional, and if you're watching this quote, unquote, that traditional path for Americans is, you know, you go from five years old to 18 to school, then you get out and then you to go to the workforce or you go to college.

So this all happened for Zack at the same time. So all his friends [00:07:00] scattered and went to college, his best friend passed away. His Christ grew closer. Really? Like the majority of your infrastructure just disappeared overnight on him. Yeah, yeah. Essentially. Yeah. And then I call it the perfect storm because on top of that, it seems like a lot of the time I don't want to speak for everyone, but a lot of the time, these chemical issues that pop up and people tend to heighten during the late teens, early twenties.

So things like OCD or depression or what have you. Really manifested in those years and that, and that's what happened with me. So it wasn't just grief, like grief you have to go through. Right. This was something that that wasn't, it didn't feel temporary, almost like grief is almost like a temporary thing.

It's something that everyone has to go through. Right. And there's no way of getting around that. You can take as much, you know, medications as many medications as you'd like. [00:08:00] But when you come off of them, you still have to go through the grief. This wasn't that I was feeling the grief on top of something else.

So things got really out of control. So I was literally spending days in bed just not getting up, like literally for, and I, I mean, I would get up here and there and there just to move my body around, but I wasn't really sleeping. It wasn't really a lake in it awake. And this was happening for months at a time.

You know, I, I only lasted in college. A couple of months, if that. And when I started to realize about six months later, I was like, okay, I really need to get myself together. And I was having a real tough time focusing on anything. I was like, you know what? I've got it. I've got it. I've got to start with these micro goals.

Okay. And I started with the worst thing possible. I started by watching the news, which is probably the worst decision you could make, but yeah. Depressive and fake. Right. So in my mind, I was like, okay, [00:09:00] smart people watch the news. I'm going to get through a half hour of the news and then I'll get through an hour of the news, but it was all just really depressing.

Right. So what I did after that, I was lucky enough to fall. I was playing in bands this whole time. I still play in bands, but I was playing in bands this whole time. I mean, we weren't playing very much those few months. I really didn't have that social structure, but I started playing in bands again, I was playing in high school and then about a year after out of high school, I started playing in bands again, and I was lucky enough to fall into this group of guys who were into like working out.

And that was the first like concrete step, the first little tiny step step up. From there, it was just really like this brick by brick type of thing. I started pulling ideas that I, that I developed through karate that, you know, they were so valuable, but [00:10:00] I didn't really realize it till I was closer to being an adult.

I don't really consider, you know, people on an adult till their mid twenties, but, you know, I started pulling some from some of those lessons, but it was also You know, dialing in my nutrition, which, which sounds silly, right. For people with depression. But there, there are some people who actually consider depression inflammatory issue.

And if you're taking in the wrong foods, you're, you're, you know, you're, you're, you can literally be inflaming things in your brain. Like, and it took me awhile to learn that and things were more subtle than like right now, if I have a glass of milk, it won't end well. Right. But then it was like a little more subtle.

So just dialing that in interesting side note, actually, a lot of people consider depression to be a gut issue cause you actually create more serotonin in your gut than you do in your brains. People are giving probiotics. So it was, it was really like, I would say that, you know, from [00:11:00] 18 years old on the story of my life was really just this brick by brick.

Building myself back up. I ended up graduating from college, which I never thought I'd even go back to college. Went back to college, graduated with honors. And then I, you know, became a personal trainer. I went back and got a master's degree. Now, here we are. I'm going back for a second master's degree to become a therapist.

You know, in the meantime also doing all these other things that I do. But an important thing to note is, you know, when I was this, wasn't all like, you know, this, this flip of a switch. And like, then all of a sudden I, I got my, my I was graduating with honors. I was focused on these external things.

Right. So I was like, okay, well, if I graduate college, then I'll feel better. Then I'll feel whole, that didn't happen. I was like, okay, well then, you know, I won't be like everyone else. I won't just be. This person who graduated college and has, has these honors, I'll also be a personal [00:12:00] trainer. I'll get that as an extra, and then I'll be, you know, feel whole, and that didn't help either.

So I was like, okay, so let's go and I'll be efficient. Turn this arrow inwards. So so that's what I did. And it wasn't until I was like working with clients like actual you know, I was a personal trainer, but really working with the clients and seeing how they felt about things. And I became a fitness nutrition specialist and when they were calling me and it was the kind of like that giving back and working with people on that, like very intimate level that's w almost like S kick-started that internal work, like to, to really start that in myself as well, because when people were calling me about nutrition stuff, they weren't talking about nutrition.

They knew what to eat when people were struggling with their weight, it wasn't about food 80% of the time. It wasn't about. So yeah, so that's like the abbreviated version here we are now. Yeah. And there's so many points in depths to go to, but just your [00:13:00] last comment. I mean, I think that's a human characteristic and flaw.

We all, most of us in most situations know exactly what we need to do. We just don't do it. You know, like you, yeah. You may not be a certified personal trainer, but you know, to get up and walk or, you know what, I get up and run and go to the gym. So it's like, why do you think it is that we know, you know, how many books have been ruined in the world and you go into a bookstore and there's just like, I couldn't read these in my lifetime.

And that's just only a fraction. What do you think the psychological. Psychological condition of a man, man, meaning mankind that makes us know truth, but not act on it. Is that tying into that self destructive behavior or something deeper. It's not a simple answer. So part of it is what I call infobesity.

Right? You walk into a bookstore and you see thousands of books laying around and you don't know where to start. It gets overwhelming [00:14:00] and you stop, you know, that's one. The other is you're so worried about putting out the next fire or you have that focus of the external thing because that's what you can see.

Right? A lot of people are that way. They want to, they want that concrete thing instead of turning the hour inwards, it's always out. So they're like well the fence needs to be painted, so I'm going to go paint the fence. And I'll get to this later. I'll get to the important things later. I think.

Maybe one in eight thing in all humans. What I hate, I hate speaking for everyone, but in a lot of humans is it's like a, it's like an interesting type of I'm struggling for the word procrastination, I guess, but we tend to do, and this is funny. I've noticed this with a lot of people, they have all these important things to do, right.

And they'll always start with the second most important thing. And then they'll kind of like, okay, once I [00:15:00] clear the other things out, then I'll work on this most important thing. Meanwhile, that most important thing is sitting there, but they want to, they want to work on these other things first because then it gives them that self, that, that sense of accomplishment.

So they think it does to an extent. Right. But they're never focusing on that main thing. It's an interesting question. And I, I don't know if I'm qualified to speak for all of mankind, but you definitely have a point there where we, we we're not good at, we're not good at that. That follows through.

Yeah. And it's always intrigued me because I struggle with that. Like, I'll have a list of tasks and I'm a big list guy, and then I'll find myself knocking off a small unimportant thing. And then the things that I need to do or that I promised to do get them done, but man, it's a struggle. Like I'll wait till the last minute.

Not because I'm lazy, but because I'm pushing it off and find excuses. And that always bothers me. Cause I, the quote by Ben Franklin rings in my head, you know, the man who [00:16:00] is good at making excuses is often good at nothing else. And it's like, I'll push stuff off. And I always want to know like, where is that inside of me?

And why? Like, where did it come from? Why do I push off the important stuff? And I'm thinking we have listeners all over the world right now, listening to this episode, like, oh yeah, that's me. So I didn't know if you had any insights on how do we overcome that? Like what are steps we can take? Well, my theory is we don't like that feeling of all that pressure of S this important thing going on.

We don't like that feeling. It's easier just to kick the can down the road. And it's also like, Ooh, what if I get this wrong? I think that's a big thing. That's so if I screw up failure yeah. If I screw up these other things, it won't matter. But if I screw up this big thing, that's going to matter. Right.

And it's going to sound crazy. It's going to sound crazy, but hear me out on this, the way I got around this was when I had, when I went to grad school for the first time and I had a huge paper to do, and this was like the most important thing. I remember one specific [00:17:00] paper, when this all clicked, it was the most important paper of the semester.

And I knew I had to get it done. I knew I had to get it done. And what I did literally was I was like, I'm just going to open a document and label it and put it in its correct place. And I was like, and that's what I'm going to do. And that's what I did. And I was like, okay. And then I'm just going to put my name on it.

Put, you know, the correct heading like the day and like the subject and what the paper is, all that. And that was what I did. And then I was like, I was like, okay, I'm going to count that as a win, but then I'm going to start putting down just any kind of brainstorm ideas. And then I, and then the pressure's off and that's all I'm going to do.

And I started putting just brainstorming ideas down. Right. Cause that's the way I tend to write. I tend to put all my basic ideas in and then I fine tune it. Right. So just putting in my basic ideas, I was like, okay, I'm just going to do my intro and you see where this is going. Right. So it was just these tiny, tiny goals.

But once I started going that little bit of [00:18:00] breath came in a little bit of pressure came off my shoulders and then it seemed like that next tiny little goal, all you do is you're setting up these little tiny micro goals and that's it. And that's all you need to do. And once you start knocking those out, the pressure gets to be a little less, a little less, a little less, next thing you know, you don't want to stop as you're feeling good.

You're in that zone. Right. You're in that that state of flow. So it sounds silly, but that's, that's the way to do it. It's just open up a document, put your name. And then it all just kind of falls into place. It's that first part it's just that getting started. That's the hardest part. Yeah. And I think for myself, for you, for all our listeners, for everybody, I think that's why people who procrastinate, not everybody's like, if you think the word procrastinate, you think, oh, that's somebody who's lazy.

There's pushing off. Cause relating not, it's not true. A lot of people have so many psychological reasons why they're pushing it off. But I know for myself by pushing things off, it forces me to get it done. Like I have a goal 8:00 AM Wednesday. [00:19:00] So Tuesday night, I'm like, all right, I'll just stay up all night and get it done.

It forces me into that flow into that zone. That's very common. That's very common. And I'm like you, right. So, yeah. And is that it? Should we just embrace it and accept it or is there a way to fix it? Because that's an, I still struggle with it. I'm 44. I'm like why I think about this for a month. And then I knock it out in seven hours.

Why didn't I just do this a month ago? Yeah. Well, there is a benefit to it in some instances, right? Sometimes it's great. Sometimes it works to our advantage. Right. But when it starts taking over our lives are affecting everything in our lives, then that's no good. Right. So I think sometimes leaving that is okay.

I have a great example of this. I was in, when I was back in my undergrad, I wrote a paper and I saved them on a flash drive and emailed it to myself. I got to the school. It was. In my emails. Okay. Well, at least it's on my flash drive, you know, check my flash drive. It wasn't there either. And it was due after lunch.

So I literally [00:20:00] ran to the library, sat down, rewrote the entire paper. It was a 10 page paper. I remember this from the top of my head. It just, from what I remember, rewrote it cleaned up. I got like a B plus. So like, but I was laser laser focused cause I had to be right. And that was not a good situation.

Right. But I got it done. Nice. But I got it done. Right. Cause I had to focus. So there is, you know, there are times when that's okay. Like, right. Like let things go. But you know, obviously it's not healthy when David, if you were like agonizing over this thing on Wednesday. Right. And let's say you knew about this a week ago.

I don't know what you do about this. And you're agonizing, agonizing over agonizing over it. Then it may just be more advantageous to get it done. Right. Instead of carrying that weight around, carrying that weight around, it would be better just to get it done. But since, you know, you're so like. You're in tune, right?

You have that insight to know, well, I'm going to be under the gun Tuesday. I'm going to knock this thing out. So maybe you're not carrying that weight around. Right. So it's a balance, right? So for people who are feeling the weight, cause [00:21:00] I agree with you. Like for me, it's like, I got to the point where I just accept and I'm thankful and I can get it done and have a history, get it done.

But for the people listening who are carrying the weight around, yeah. What steps do you have for them to get started and throw that monkey into the river and let it drift? Well, I've never heard that before. To me. I just pictured this weighted fat monkey on my back. I just want to throw that bastard in the river and let them drown.

We're going to start something. Okay. This is going to be a new saying we've got to put it on a urban dictionary or something. All right, cool. I'm stealing that. So anyway it, it does depend on the person you are because everyone's a little different, right? There's that book Was it called? Eat the frog.

Have you heard of that book? Yeah. Sounds close to killing a monkey though. It does sound cool. Kill monkey. Yay. Eat that frog. I think it's called I think it's David Allen wrote it and it's about like getting the most important thing done first thing in the morning. So the [00:22:00] idea is you're eating the frog.

Like you're getting the worst thing done, but you're not looking forward to first thing in the morning. Right. And then you have the rest of the day to go and he makes it automatic. So he wakes up brushes, his teeth gets right into it and that's what works for him. And then he's, and then he's fine. Right.

May work for some people. I like to pair things with, with like routine. So like I know I start every morning I brush my teeth, I drink water, I eat breakfast, have coffee, and then I get to work and I have this block of. My like important things, because I know I'm more of a morning person. I work really well just after I've had my coffee.

Right. So I CA I, I basically pair it with my coffee. Like, I'll sit there with my coffee and do my more important things. So if you pair it with something to sometimes that works for people otherwise, you know, maybe it's just, like I said, just say, Hey, I'm going to take this in micro goals. Like, I'm just going to start, see, I always use this computer analogy because it's [00:23:00] easy.

Right. Because I have to say, start the document, just put your name on it, and maybe just do that and pair that with something, or just say, I'm going to skip to that at lunch. So you're not, you're not trying to swallow this entire huge goal. And so it's not quite as daunting. Cause a lot of times people with you know, with heightened sensitivities, they're like afraid of this.

They're afraid of the fear that they're going to mess it up. Once they get going, they realize it's not that intense. Right. So it's kind of like just getting over that fear and you brought up another point. That's important. I've heard so many people say, start your day and do this checklist and dah, dah, dah, dah.

And I understand the concept behind and I agree with it for the most part, but you also made a great point that I think if you're listening, there's so many people in the world that feel like failures because they don't get it. And have the start of the day, like I'm on fire. You know, some people will take time to warm up.

And then the end of the day, [00:24:00] is there a game you're the MC days, they're eight game. So talk about that for the people that need to learn to forgive themselves, like there's nothing wrong with you and you're not doing something wrong. If you're not a morning person, because not everybody wakes up like that guy from Jerry McGuire, like, Hey, it's going to be a great day.

Some people need time to warm up. So talk to those people so they can forgive themselves and love themselves AB so well you said it for me, man. I mean, absolutely. I agree with that. There, there are people who do their best work late at night. And I understand that because they're just like, there were people who do their best work at five in the morning.

It's because everything is quiet now, you know, you don't have other people reaching out to you and you have that kind of like focus bubble a good friend of mine. She's an author and she does her best work. I'm not kidding you between two and three hours. And, and I'm like, that's real, I'm obviously sleep.

And she said it's just quiet and she's a night [00:25:00] person. And I get that. I mean, you look at all the great chefs and a lot of great musicians. They're night people. That's just the way some people are wired and that's okay. You know, a lot of authors, like, like my friend. Yeah. I never, I never accepted that until I was reading about Winston Churchill.

He's a man like that did so much in so many people hated and that dude would stay in bed till lunch. You know what I mean? And everybody would be like, be like, oh, that guy's lazy, but look how much he accomplished in life. And he'd stay up till the middle of the night. And it's just like built differently.

And yeah, there's a, there's a mental edge to it too. Like working at night for some people. Yeah. It's like, they feel like everybody else is sleeping. So they're sneaking behind and getting ahead, you know what I mean? There's so, so basically I think we're, both of us are saying, is find what works for you and do it.

And don't feel like you're doing something. Absolutely. It's just it, I mean, that really, that only comes from these, this old idea of, you know, farming when the date, when the sunlight is out. Right. But we don't live in that world anymore, so it's okay. You know, it's okay. If you [00:26:00] sleep till later, it doesn't matter that we don't, we're not bound to sunlight these days.

If you focus better at night and fine work at night. That's great. So let's do this act. If you don't mind, let's go back to your story and I appreciate all the insight we're given, but I want to make sure we, we really understand you and where you came from and what made you, so after your best friend passed away, you said you started noticing, like you're not just taking things deeper and harder and this a little different, it's not, you're just more sensitive guy, but there's actually something different.

Yeah. Did you ever identify medically chemically emotionally? Like what condition you have or deficiency or was it just, I just started working out and building those step-by-step bricks. Hard to say, because my mind was in so many different places now with now looking back, I would assume that I [00:27:00] was, you know, I could have been this dynamic which is like, just design me as like a low level depression.

And then when traumatic events happen, you dip deeper. Another thing I should know is psychological issues. A lot of the time there is no clear cut box. You can put things in. Sometimes it's a mix of things. It's not like doing math right. Where there's a definite answer. So look, I did notice for sure.

And this is going to sound weird again that. I was driving one day and I was like, I don't really see colors anymore. I mean, I saw them, but like normally when you see colors, it, like, you almost have like feelings that come along with it. And it was like, everything just seems black and white. And I was like, something is just not working.

I would also cause I, I know, cause even my memory seemed more vivid than the world I was living in at that time. Like it seemed like there was just more color and that's [00:28:00] the best way I could put it. It sounds weird. I know. No that doesn't seem weird at all. I mean, I know myself and our listeners, we all have different struggles and I know personally, like I've struggled with depression from a catalyst like you did.

And it for me it's more sound I can't hear. Right. I actually had a hearing test. And so if you're listening to Zach and out there as a listener, you're not alone. Right. But I had a hearing test. No. I had doctors and counselors for the last six years, tell them I had PTSD and I've never publicly said that.

So anyways, I had a traumatic life instance in 2014 and 2015 and it just really rocked me. And I'm like, what, what? And I'm always asking my kids and stuff and people all, what, what, especially if I'm like in a place where there's background noise. So I finally went and got up hearing test and I, the lady knew nothing about what's going on.

And she looked at me and she's like, do [00:29:00] you have PTSD? Apparently. Yes. Because everybody keeps telling me that. And she's like, listen, you have perfect hearing, but you have an auditory processing. I see in all these soldiers that come through. So when I hear something in my brain's not processing it, so it's getting better, but they just told me it's going to take time.

So when you say you didn't see colors, I absolutely believe it because. How God made our minds and our bodies, the mind can only take so much if we don't process it. Right. So then that overload occurs and I lost hearing you lost sight or, you know, colors. So yeah, I totally get it. But how did you get it back?

Like, so how did you get it back? Well, I, we got to touch back on this. That is absolutely fascinating. That's really fascinating. So I'm actually going to I'll, I'll jump back to your question, but I just want to, this is interesting. [00:30:00] Hey man, welcome to the remarkable people podcast. Our listeners know we jumped back and forth and we'd go all over the place, man.

Okay. So this grad program I'm starting in the spring is, is it's a therapist program. It's traditional psychotherapist program. However, on top of it, it's called, it's called there's like a it's called dance slash movement therapy. I'm not doing it. Yeah, nobody wants to see that. So I'm doing the movement stuff and and it's this really like cool cutting-edge thing where your body keeps score.

And that's one really interesting instance with the hearing. That's really interesting. So, you know, your body does keep score, you know, it's or it, it shows these certain things. Right. Now there's w in one of my psychology courses we learned about, oh, I'm not gonna get graphic. A woman was in a car accident and saw something awful, and I'm not gonna get graphic about it, but she went blind [00:31:00] like legit blind.

They were, you know, doing the whole, the tests and like, you know, she wouldn't flinch that kind of thing after she worked out her emotional issues, her vision came back. So, yeah. So very interesting. And I forgot about that. So you mentioned that about the hearing, that's like just really fascinating and really.

People knowing that they're, there may be noticing things in their bodies that maybe they're not. So in tune they're so used to walking around numb. Right. And they're not totally in tune with how they're feeling, but they're noticing things like the color of the hearing. That's great. I'm so glad you brought that up.

So anyway, back to your question about, about, you know, building my, what was, what was the question of is about building muscles basically for we've got listeners now, like 90%, like what the heck are they talking about? But then there's 10% like, holy crap. Them too. That's what I have. So for that 10% of our listeners all over the globe, what can they do to [00:32:00] start seeing the colors and feeling and hearing again properly not being like what?

Yeah, no, thank you. No, it was purely internal work and it took me a lot longer than somebody withheld. Because I, I kinda went alone on this. However, I went a lot deeper than anyone. I know I did every single thing under the sun and it took me years and years and years and years to, and it wasn't an instant thing.

It wasn't like all of a sudden I felt the colors again. Right. It was just these, these gradual gradual steps which is honestly, that's why I wrote the book was cause like, I don't want it to take somebody. I don't want for something like that to take someone 10 years. I wanna, I want to speed up this, this whole process.

Actually like one really nice compliment I got was it was from a psychologist who had read the book [00:33:00] and she was like, this book is really good. Just not for people who are suffering through this kind of stuff, but really just for anyone that's really good. Like just way to improve people's lives.

I was like, oh, thank you so much. Like, it was really, it was really nice of her, so humble brag there, but yeah man, no, that's, that's important because every human has a same. Needs, you know, we all want to be loved. We all want to feel special. We all want to, you know, feel like we have a purpose and we all have different weaknesses and strengths, but I'm sure if you have truth, truth is truth, man.

It's going to benefit everybody. Some people might just add a little buffing shine and some people might restore a broken foundation. So keep going, man. And we've all been through trauma. If you're human, you've been through some kind of trauma, whether it's big T or little T or you're pressing it, you've been through something.

And like you said about that buff and shine thing. That's one thing that I, I just, I can't get behind with a lot of social media stuff. I mean, there's, there's, you are the [00:34:00] exception because you're open about things. Most people you see on social media, and I'll say that most people you see are just showing up.

And they're not showing the struggle, right. You're not seeing I equated to an iceberg, right. That you only see the tips of the iceberg, but you don't see all that stuff underneath all the work it took to get there or all the things they've gone through. So, I mean, yeah, just that just speaks to you. And like, I just really appreciate, you know, you being open about things.

So like, you know, letting people see under the hood, so to speak and letting people see, see the work, the humanness of it, you know, it's crazy. We're, we're going around with all these filters and showing ourselves these perfect destinations, doing these perfect things. That's not human. Yeah. I th thank you.

But for all our listeners, we're all on a journey, man. And I remember when I was a kid and I think I'm a little bit older than you. I'm 44. You don't have to say your age. But when I was a kid, there was a bunch of magazines because we didn't have social media. Right. So people would buy these teen bought magazines when we buy these like [00:35:00] Vogue and self and you know, all these girl magazines and.

At that point, there really wasn't men's magazines like there wasn't men's health. I think there might've been GQ. Wow. So it was like they did statistics and studies that if a woman looked at these women magazines, they'd be forever. I forget the statistic where it's like for every minute they looked, they were depressed for 15.

Cause they're just flipping through seeing perfect. Perfect, perfect, perfect airbrushed, airbrushed, airbrushed. And they felt bad about themselves. And they see these rich people on vacation and rich meaning wealth in the sense of financial. So someone's a host mom and they can't travel. And now they're feeling bad about themselves.

Not looking at all the stuff they have. So whether it was 19 70, 19, 80 or 2021, anytime we're comparing it's unhealthy and it brings us down. So what you're saying, man, is spot on for our listeners. No good can [00:36:00] come of it. You know, and like, I think a big part of the deck men have deteriorated. We're becoming feminine.

Women are becoming masculine and I'm not, that's not a sexual thing in that I'm talking about the emotional strength, like, you know, before we had Cowboys and men who were strong and would bear the burden of the family for love, not because a man's better than a woman or woman's better than man, because it was, you know, the role so to speak.

And then we start into the social media now we're degradating and we're breaking down and comparing. And I just think it's just a downward slope that society has taken us on. And it's so unhealthy. It's hard because it's almost like we're, we're still figuring out how this is going to work. Right. It's not that old, all this social media stuff.

And we have so much information. Right. And in some ways it's the best of times and worst of times, right? In some ways we have all these really great messages. Then in some ways we have these really awful messages coming through. So it's like, [00:37:00] it's almost like now our main focus is like, for our mean, our main, what should be our main objective is like filtering out, right.

Is like, just figuring out like what, making sense of all this. Because like I said before, it's infobesity, there's just so much going on and I it'll be interesting to see how this plays out, but it's, it's, it's getting wild. Right? Yeah. And I love that term information obesity. I remember an article years ago called techno WellMed.

Cause there's just so much out there just technology-wise and choices, but information obesity is great. But you know, you, you, how many for our, for us, for as a community, right? Everybody listening to this, you listen to experts. So you can, you can do this per day. You need to do this per day. You need you to do this predict.

You need to do this predict and you start listening to different experts, say all the things you need to do per day. And you got 82 hours in the 24 hour period, right? It's impossible. It's impossible. It's not. So you have to do a, God's made [00:38:00] you to do and fall like Zach saying the journey. So let's go back.

So you never got like clinically or formally diagnosed with what you had, but you're in a band and they start, oh, go ahead. Yeah, no, I, I should add, I did do like one day of therapy and the lady wasn't really a good fit and I, and it put a bad taste in my mouth for therapy. I was like, okay, then this isn't for me.

And that was really the end of it. It wasn't until I was in college, I was taking a couple of psychology courses and I was like, Hey, you have a private practice on the side. I really like you can I come to you? And he was like, yeah, sure. So I went to him for awhile and he was really great that that was a really eye opening thing.

So, you know, a lot of people. Not everyone, but a lot of people, they feel like therapy is just for broken people. That's totally not the case, especially now that I'm learning more about it. It's really not the case. It's really just a coach. It's emotional [00:39:00] coach. And that's a really good way of looking at it.

Great statement you just made if is just for broken people in the gyms, just for fat people. Cool. Oh, great. Yeah. Great analogy. Yes. Thank you. Because if you think you go to the gym, you get people of all sorts, same thing with therapy, we're all just trying to get emotionally stronger and physically strong.

Right? It's the same parallel and there's no like perfect. Like, okay. I've made it. There's no like perfect goal. Right. We're constantly evolving and changing and that's great. That's part of the human experience. I'm so glad you said that. Yeah, man, this is, this is a great podcast. Well hopefully people listening will hopefully be, will listen.

It helps them. It's helping me. Hopefully it gives you, hopefully it helps our listeners cause we love them. And that's what we're here for. So, and something you said too is please, if you've tried counseling or therapy or any kind of, you know, you've reached for help and it's gone bad, sadly, that's common, [00:40:00] very common and very common.

Yeah. So don't give up though, because let's say you have 10 doctors or counselors or psychologists or psychiatrists. Probably two are awful, five or six don't care, but you got the two gems that do they add air, keep finding, keep searching for them. And do you have any tips Zach, for help helping people find the two good ones?

Because you know, I heard this years ago and I bust out laughing. I grabbed the doctor and threw him against the wall because I was wicked sick and it was physical. It wasn't mental. And this dude didn't even look me in the eye and told me I needed an antidepressants. And I was about to die dropping down to 145 pounds.

And I, I basically said to him, I said, look, If I tell you the elephant's purple it's purple. If it's blue, it's blue. And I swear if you write a prescription for antidepressant, I'm going to shove that pen up your beep. [00:41:00] And I was furious because I was dying. It ended up, it was an infection in my face from a dentist.

It was systematically just killing me all the time. Lost my gallbladder had a bunch of issues. So it was physical. And this dude's telling me it's mental. Now everything goes hand in hand. I was getting depressed by being sick. Yeah. Anyways, long story short, that guy is a complete loser. Right. And now thank the Lord.

He's out of practice, but one of my friends, yeah, he's out of practice. And one of my friends said to me, when I was telling the story about this jerk, he's like, Dave, what do you call a doctor that graduates first in his class? And I'm like doctor. And he's like, Dave, what do you call a doctor that graduates last in his class?

I'm like, darn. Yeah. So you got 10 physicians that graduate or 10 counts as a graduate, but that doesn't mean they're quality. So keep searching for the quality, but don't kill somebody. Cause I was this close. [00:42:00] I'm like, if I'm going to die, this is one of my last actions I'm going to take you out. So you can't hurt anybody else.

And his intern was laughing her ass off. She was like, she must have seen this jerk, like doing this to other people. And she literally was sitting there laughing. My wife was in shock. He pissed his pants almost and the intern was laughing. So that's a great story. Sadly, I got too many of those, but go back.

So what's the advice you give for our listeners trying to find a quality caring solution? Well, first of all, If you're able to have a team, and this doesn't mean like having a team of therapists, but have a team of like, so everyone does stuff outside of work. Right. There's something going on that they do.

So whether you're in martial arts or you do yoga or something, whatever it is even just like a like a reading group or whatever, you know, it, you can't rely on just [00:43:00] one person to like, solve all your problems. And that's kind of like, not really what they're there for. They're there to help you along, but nobody can do it for you.

Right. So, but it's good to have, I always think the more people the better, right. Even if you start like, just like a little zoom support group. Right. Great. That's part of your team, right? When it comes to therapists, it's hard because I understand it's expensive. I get it. Yeah. And you don't want to be bouncing from place to place the place.

What I would do is start conversations in the circles that you have maybe outside of work. Cause there's unfortunately still that stigma. Right? So if you're in working, you're asking for therapists, you know, unfortunately there's just, there's a stigma around it, but you know, outside of what people are, yeah.

I'm laughing. Like, do you know if somebody that deals with voices that would be bad at work? I'm not making fun of anybody that has that issue, but [00:44:00] that would be bad to bring up at work. You got to have fun with it. So that's actually a great point, right? We can't be taking everything too seriously in life because you know, that's not going to help anyone.

So anyway. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, sissy stick on that for a second. Yeah. Oh man. Like, you know, people call it in. They they're being offensive, but when they call us a snowflake generation, but the thing is like, listen, people are way too sensitive. If you can't, you can call me an ugly fat Italian. I'm fine with it because I don't care.

Like, I mean, you might be right in Knight sends me to the gym. You might be wrong. And I'm like that guy's a jerk, but fricking be honest, why everybody's so damn touchy and you get these morons in politics, leading and hiding and suppressing everything. It's just a big mess. So listen, if you're fat, call yourself fat.

If you're skinny, call yourself skinny, if you're but work on it. And like, if, if you want to call me some bad name, go ahead. It's okay. It's probably true, but don't be [00:45:00] so damned. Yeah. Yeah. And you know, and I, and I get the, if it's, you know, I get certain circumstances. I get it. Yeah. When he called me like I was Italian and we grew up in Boston, so, okay.

There's all different cultures. There's one race, the human race, but there's different nations, different cultures and there's derogatory terms for everybody. So I used to hate being called certain things, but I was like, you know what? You, guy's an idiot. I'm going to move on now. I'm not saying we should be insensitive or harsh, but we shouldn't have to worry about, did I say the wrong word I'm with you there, the cancel culture.

It's ridiculous. No, I am totally with you there. But you know, that, that starts with ourselves, right? We can't take ourselves too seriously. So I think if everybody just kind of takes ownership of, you know, look, I'm just, you know, that part of being positive, having that positive mindset, which is so important is, is having a sense of humor about yourself and, you [00:46:00] know, not taking every, not everything is so tense and you know, like a matter of life and death, like it's, you know, it's okay.

It's a laugh, you know what I mean? Like I remember I I don't know if you remember this. I mean, I was still a kid, but after nine 11 you know, Saturday night live wasn't on air for awhile and they S Lauren Michaels like started the show and somebody asked him like, is it okay to laugh? And he was so like, yeah, it's okay.

Like, it's okay now, you know as that's part of life. Right. So like it's just an, it's just an important note. Like, yeah, we don't want to take things. To seriously take things to heart. I, and I, and I bring that up because it's a lot of times, and that's really hard for people with depression is like, almost like they, they take [00:47:00] everything so seriously that it, it sucks the joy out of things, you know?

And if you can just give yourself these little bit of breaks, you know, it's like giving yourself a break, giving these other people breaks. It's just going to make for a happier situation, right? Oh yeah. A hundred percent. A hundred percent. So I didn't mean to derail you on that question, pat, how do you find the good ones in the pool of unqualified or bad ones?

So go back to that. No, no, no, that's my bad, there seems to be a theme in our, in our conversation. We can yeah. So anyway, it's all that matters. It's how you finish it. Good on you, dude. Yeah, so I'll tell you the way I did. It was like I said, it was, it was through my professor, but now I I'm lucky enough to where you know, in my yoga school, I actually work with a lot of therapists, which is crazy.

And they're really good at that point to me in the right direction. Of course, I wouldn't want to work with any of them because I know them pretty well, [00:48:00] but they're pretty good at pointing me in the right direction. And you, it's relatively easy now to Google search, like specifics. So like if you know, it was a traumatic event or, you know, a great example is a grief counselor, right?

I'm good friends with a grief counselor. So, so she may be a good place to start and believe it or not, the vast majority of therapists are totally cool and they will get if your personalities just don't jive and they will give you a list of. Of other therapists like that that's part of their job because like when you're, when you're going to a therapist, it's, it's an intimate relationship.

It sounds weird, but that's what it is. Right. And you can have an intimate relationship with anybody on the street. So, yeah. So, so just get into one is, is really my advice. Just get into one and then if it doesn't fit, just keep looking until you find the right time. Okay. They will give you a list of other people and they won't be offended.

Yeah. Yeah. And a good one. Won't be offended. And then, [00:49:00] yeah. And then what Zach says about the team approach, man, what's more complex. You are a house what's more important. You or a house what's more valuable you or a house. Okay. Why are you trying to build yourself without any help or with one specialist?

When you have a house, you've got three dozen experts. You've got plumbers, you've got electricians, you got network people, you got paint people, you got gutter people. If a house, which is nothing, takes all those experts, then don't be afraid to look for experts to fill in our gaps. Don't try to do it all yourself.

So, yeah, I mean, it's just true though. I mean, it's like when people look at the human body and how amazing it is, how you just get a cut and your body's like, oh, and it heals and how God made us so beautiful were, you know, [00:50:00] wonderfully and remarkably made. And it's just crazy. We all understand so little, but yeah, I say this a lot in my training because we, we talk about all kinds of, you know, body things.

Cause that's what we do. It's endlessly fascinating. You start researching. You'll never stop. It's endlessly fast. A hundred percent. And that's why, when you're talking about this, but go back to the gut too, because I personally, I don't know. So help me out, help our listeners out. I believe the gut does have a big impact.

And just last night I was having this discussion. One of my friends was with me and I felt bad. I mentioned that to you. And I think I mentioned earlier in the podcast, just this weekend, I just haven't felt myself. And my gut was upset. And then like 70% of health comes from the gut, you know, they were from that train.

I don't understand, but I do believe a hundred percent is a connection. Cause when my stomach hurts, I can't think straight and I can [00:51:00] feel like the difference in my body. What are your thoughts on the gut and how do we. So I don't, I don't try to get too complicated on this. You know, there is no perfect diet.

I go, I do have, I have a killer recipe in my book, by the way, for a shake that I think is, will be easy on anybody's stomach. I love that shake. It's delicious. Okay. Is that something it's in the book? Can we share it or just put it as part as part of the book? Yeah, it's in the book, but we can share it.

Okay, cool. We'll put that in the show notes. We'll link to it. Yeah. No, it's, it's great. But you know, everyone, everyone digest things a little differently. So, you know, that's almost a given at this point. I think we'd all understand that I go pretty in my, in my private practice. I go pretty basic. I, I really liked like the Mediterranean and the Mediterranean and the anti-inflammatory diets.

They're great. But even within those, there are certain things that my body doesn't take well, and I will tell you this, my fiance, she went, she was having a lot of stomach issues [00:52:00] and they did a It's not just for allergies, but it's for intolerances also. They're, they're slightly different. Allergy is when your immune system kicks in and tolerance, it's just your body's just like rejects it.

So my fiance is awesome, but her back, it wasn't pretty, but it was necessary. They play 82 pricks in her bag, 82 of them with different the tester to test her like allergies and intolerances. It turns out she's allergic to hay horses you know, stuff that may not really matter too much in her daily life, but found out she's really allergic to certain kinds of wheat.

And that was a huge opener, huge eye-opener. And I, I believe most primary care doctors can do this test if you ask them I know mine. So that, you know, start simple and just try to get some of these tests and [00:53:00] see what your body can take, you know, it's yeah. Like you said, it's all one system and it affects your effects, your mood, for sure.

Yeah. And what Zach saying, you made two really strong points. I want to talk about the actually having an allergic reaction and an intolerance is different and it's hard for a doctor to even know sometimes. Cause there's things I'm allergic to. I have zero problem with there's things that I don't show up on the test, but man, it's an issue.

And so the, the difference between that is major, but then also for your fiance, soon to be wife, we have listeners all over the world and in America you have gluten-free and you have all these wheat things and it's a big deal. But people overseas don't understand because their wheat is genetically different.

I don't know if you knew that the food is different depending on where you are. Yeah. So look at the region and the world you're in too, because when I remember my [00:54:00] daughter and I we went over to India a couple of years ago, ate everything all day, all night, all the breads. Zero issues and I lost 12 pounds.

Sounds cool because yeah, dude, it was fantastic. But what I'm saying is now there was a lack of stress because you know, we're on vacation, but at the same time it was a lot, like I know when I eat, sometimes I feel like I'm five months pregnant. Like it swells up my day. I'm already chubby, man. I haven't worked out in three years, but like the thing is, it's like sometimes I eat and I just feel terrible, but over there I can eat and eat and eat and eat and no issues.

So if you're in Italy, you're like, what are these guys talking about or France. Right. But in America it's a huge issue. So that's interesting. Now, what did they tell her to do? Did they just tell her to avoid it? Or what, what was the outcome? Sorry, things just to avoid and believe it or not, she takes like a a daily like allergy medicine.

That's safe to take every day. Cause she has a cat and she's allergic to [00:55:00] cats and she feels better. Yeah. She feels like way better. Like it does the trick. So yeah. All right, man. Well, we're kernel on a good stuff here. So you started working out that was the beginning of your journey. Let's let's go back to there.

Let's you talked about brick by brick and steps. What were the steps that healed Zach or, you know, like you said, it's a constant forever, but what were the real big steps that our guests can think about doing, working out? I agree. Boom. That's right there. Yup. Dialed into the nutrition. So, you know, I talked about that plenty in the book.

One of them believe it or not with supplements. And I do have, you know, the disclaimer in there, you should always contact your primary care doctor because you don't want to be taking something that is going to interact with something else that you're. But you know, and I don't put a whole lot of supplements in there, but I put the four heavy hitters in there, but my favorite is tumeric.

I don't know if you know about tumeric, you know what? I had a buddy owned a supplement store that gave me some, but I never took it. [00:56:00] And I keep hearing about it. What is it? And what's it for? He told me it's from my, my, I was doing jujitsu and my knees were hurt. So he gave me it for that. What is it? Yeah.

So, well, it's, it's an anti-inflammatory. It does. It's really good for brain health. And it's basically like, like an orange root and it's very popular in cooking in like the in like south Asia, that kind of thing, right in India, they cook a lot with it. However, the supplements better because you take one capsule, that's like eating a thousand tumor groups.

Cause what you're getting out of it sometimes you'll see it is labeled as curcumin or curcuminoids. So it's all the same thing right now. The important thing with it is take it with black pepper. Now about half of the supplements out there, there'll be black pepper in the capsules. If it's not in there, put a little black pepper on your food and take it with your food because that black pepper is going to increase the bioavailability of the tumeric without the black pepper.

It's just going to pass through your [00:57:00] system. 90 something percent of it passes through your system. You need that black pepper in order to break it down into absorb it, but at tumeric, fantastic. That is correct. Raise. You said that because just a month ago or so I literally was at dinner and I'm like, okay, salt is known.

Salt has saver salt. You know, it talks about in the Bible, how, you know, salt and preserving and when it's no good, you cast it on the ground. So it kills the weeds. Salt always has a purpose. But I remember looking at pepper and I asked people I'm like, other than the flavor of pepper, what good is it? And nobody knew.

And then I asked the doctor, I knew. And I'm like, I don't know. I'm like, I can just, I don't know. And we kind of, I just forgot about it till right now, but there's no way, like, even though they didn't have the technology internet, our ancestors had wisdom and some of it came directly from God. He's like use this and they don't even know why, but you just [00:58:00] said that.

So basically black pepper acts as a carrying agent to unlock and accelerate or enhance other different supplements. Is that what I'm hearing? Yes, absolutely. But to solve the problem, I mean, you just saw the question in my mind, man. Thank you. Yeah. I mean, pretty much anything exists for a reason, right?

Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah. So that's the big one with tumor. A lot of the time, you'll see already packaged in there, like the real good supplement companies who know what's up, they'll package it just automatically in there. You'll see, like 1% is black pepper. Yeah. So I do talk about supplements at difficult.

I talk about mindset in there. I talk about getting people's mind. Right. I talk about it, it's a tough one for people, but I do talk about meditation. And I go through some of my favorite meditations in there. I talk about like almost like I was saying before about [00:59:00] the The positive media, like, you know, I sat down and started watching the news and I was probably the worst thing I could done because I was just seeing all these awful stories.

I talk about, you know, sorting out your surroundings and only getting the, the, the, the good media and right. Turning to those positive podcasts and feeding your brain, all these good things, uplifting yourselves, as opposed to listening to I'm not knocking anybody, but I know certain people who are just way into like those serial killer podcasts, which is like, man, to me, that just seems really negative.

It would affect me differently. I don't know what they're getting out of it, but it would affect me differently. I'm not a fan. Yeah. Everybody's different because do you know that that's the number one. Murder mystery is surprised. I mean like podcasting it's expedentiously off the chart. Nah, that's crazy.

That's real crazy. I mean, good, good for them. If that's, what's serving some people in some way for me, I, I, I don't want to be listening to about murders all the time. So you know, feeding yourself that positive influence is a big thing. [01:00:00] I even talk about medication in there, you know, in my experiences with it.

I didn't start taking medications for way, way, way late in the game. And I'm glad I did because I, I filled out like everything else. And that was just kinda like the cherry on top. That was like, when I was missing that, that 10, 15% w I knew I had done everything else under the sun, and that was going to, you know, take care of just those certain things that flare it up.

But yeah, I talk about a lot of, I mean, it's all about relationships in the book. There's a lot of things. What I do in the book is I take the D-Day approach because I believe that there's not like a silver bullet. When it comes to solving depression, there's no one answer. A lot of people will say, oh, this is your one thing.

Do this one thing. And you'll be good. It's a complex issue. And for a complex issue, you've got to come at it from every angle. They'll all improve your life in a different way. Even if, if you're let's just say three out of the however many I have in there really help with your depression. They'll still help support your life in [01:01:00] different way.

But yeah, it's the D-Day approaches. I, I firmly believe in that. Yeah. Yeah. And, and define D-Day approach coming out with everything. Yeah. That's kind of a, no, I think about it. That's kind of a violent way to put it, but no, man, it's a violence life. D-Day it works. We got it. We got the results, but yeah, no.

And one thing I like about your book Zack is it's not a 182 page. Oh, thank you for saying, yeah. Yeah. I, I mentioned that in the, in the opening of the book. Yeah. The last thing I wanted to do. Sit down and read a 350 page book or whatever, to get a few ideas out of the, I made it as tight and concise as possible.

Something that somebody could actually read in a sitting. And I, it was need really almost as a gift because a lot of times people aren't going to reach out for help. But if you give this something small, like this to someone you know, it's not going to be intimidating, like getting through that big project.

The thing that we procrastinate with, you know, it's, it's that small thing that we can [01:02:00] get through and read through it. It's a repeat read. I really want people to, to almost study this, you know, this was years and years in the making and I've spoken with plenty of psychologists who who really support it.

And I've been so lucky to have that support and almost like validation. It feels like, but yeah, it's, it's almost more like a gift. Yeah. And if correct me if I'm wrong, but I saw the E version, I think the E version was 27 pages. Is that correct? Longer than that. But not by much, but not by much. Okay. And again, I was looking at the version, so I might've got the numbers wrong based on that.

But if you're listening, you're like, I'm not a reader. Well, be a life like achiever, be a studier, be someone who's searching for truth. And one thing I really liked about your book Zack is when I was looking through it, I didn't get a chance to read it. Cause we had a disconnect. Like it was my fault.

My fault. You can tell them, I said, this is the wrong David it's okay. But it's my fault. It's mine [01:03:00] fault in the sense that I should have just read it anyways. I'm dyslexic. So I like to read hard copies and then Zach was kind enough to send me a hard copy. And there's just a glitch, a blip there. I, I, I sent it to the wrong guy, but anyways, no, no, no.

That's okay. It's okay, dude. It's my, I could have read it. I could have sucked it up. Put on my big boy. Pants could have read the digital copy, but I looked through it and I loved what I saw. And I love the fact that sometimes you get a book and it's, you know, 50 pages, but it's filled with like 27 pages of pictures.

Yours is content, but it's, well-written. It's like organized and it's very intelligent, but it's not hard to read. So if you're listening, man, pick up Zach's book, we'll put a link in the show notes where you can just purchase it physical or digital and check it out. It's, you know, it's going to help you.

It's going to give you tools. It's going to give you the ability to think it and look at things from a different perspective projects [01:04:00] like this podcast. I think we've had a couple of killer illustrations that we both came up with spontaneous, but it, I think it's helping me and I'll help you. And I hope everyone.

So make sure you check this out. And then where are you today? Exactly. First off between birth and where you are today. Is there anything significant in your life we've missed thus far that you want to cover or you're like, no, Hey, this is important. When you talk about this, I want to help people and this'll help them.

Is there anything like that, that we skipped in your life? I mean, there's plenty of ego things, but I'm not, I'm not really. At that stage anymore, to be honest, like I just wanted people to get their eyes on this book and share it with as many people as they can, you know, that's where I'm at right now. And it's really going to be focusing on becoming a therapist next and doing the movement stuff.

Of course, on top of it, just, just trying to, you know do the good work. All right. And I do, I agree with you that everybody's depressed, let's say, or has anxiety for a [01:05:00] reason and that's complex, but I do think there's pillars like exercise, like yeah, exercise. Isn't the only solution for man. It's a huge piece.

And then you talk about, you're going to movement therapy, well, working out as movement and going for walks his movement and it just circulates. It's like lubricating the body and cleaning out those cells. So what are other big pillars like, Hey, you're listening to this podcast. You have no money, but you need help to do these things.

Workout blank. What are those things to get started and to get started? Yeah. Yeah, no, I get what you're saying. I mean the, the moving your bodies, you know, so important, we've covered that, the getting your diet. Right. See, I always like to start with the physical because you can see it. So I just start with the physical, it's like the easiest, because it's like, you can move things.

Right. So visual, [01:06:00] it's visual and it's, it's not like it's not so much that cerebral thing. So yeah. So the working out the, the diet get that nailed down, especially if there's stuff that you're not isn't agreeing with you, but of course, you know, what kind of fuel do you want to burn? It's not just for your physical health.

I mean, and you know, your brain is part of your body, so you got into giving it that great fuel, right. Th that, that's just a, that's almost like a no brainer. And this is a, just a little tip that I'll, I'll say this is important too. You have to practice forgiveness, not just for yourself. I almost count that as a given at this point, but a lot of times when people are depressed, they blame others for not understanding or saying the wrong things, but here's the thing they can't understand because they're not in your shoes.

Everyone's situation is different. You know what I mean? And people are going to give you bad advice [01:07:00] and they may have the best intentions, but it may not work for you. So you'd have to forgive them. You can't think that everyone's against you, which is a very easy thing for people to fall into. They have depression.

Yeah, I think that's excellent advice because we get stuck in our own head and our own world and realizing that they can't understand you because. They're not, you I've asked really important. That's a pretty profound statement. You guys rewind the last minute and relisten to what Zach said there. Cause that's really important.

All right, well, let's start with this too, because you brought up eating and we talked about working out. Most people know they need to eat right. And workout. Now, some people may not understand what eating right is and they need to do some work and research, but let's say for the majority of us, you know, okay, I need to work out and I need to eat.

Right. Yeah. Right. Why don't we, why do we go through the drive-through of that [01:08:00] restaurant? Make our stomachs fat and our wallet. Skinny. Why do we abuse our body? So we feel like trash. Why do we do that? What's the self-sabotage. And how do we free ourselves from that to use? Let's be honest. It's just easy to drive through and get something.

If you're doing that go for the, the least bad of the options. Let's say you have to go to one of the fast food chains. Get the grilled chicken sandwich. You know, don't get the fries, get the salad and then, you know, get the least bad option. I get that. Another thing is people they're so used to feeling bad, like that low level physically bad, they don't even know it and what they do to get their little spikes of like feel good.

Like the chemicals rushing to their brain is they'll actually do some of the worst things. They'll they'll eat like a sleeve of Oreos. And I know somebody who would do that and it would feel great for five minutes and then you get that crash and [01:09:00] back to their normal, so to speak. Right. Which is, which is awful.

Right. So what I do when I'm talking to my, my nutrition clients, let's just say it's just way too daunting, way too daunting. I will say, start with your drinks. This is a very practical thing, but a lot of my book is just very practical. They start with what you're drinking. A lot of times people are drinking like that.

There's way, way more soda than you would imagine. People drink a lot of soda. There's also like that that nasty, like sweetened ice tea, like got real, real sweet. I see. It's basically soda. Okay. Okay. I'm going to laugh because Zach is from New Jersey and I'm from Boston outside of Boston, Milford, mass.

And he's like that really sweet tea. Keisha, once you hit like North Carolina, now it's just sweet tea. And I live down here now in the south. So it's sweet tea is everywhere and it's hyper saturated. So if you're not from America, if you're not from especially the south and you don't know what the hell is, sweet tea, [01:10:00] sweet tea is tea.

And it hyper saturates and it really just taxed it. Each cell was sugar. It's like, Coca-Cola like you physically, couldn't put all that sugar in those cells, unless you hyper saturate you heated incredibly. And you basically crammed that sugar in and the Dick people, you know, one of the worst drugs in the world is sugar and we're all like pounding it down with no remorse, but sweet tea is what you're referring to.

There is something very charming about sweet tea, but, but I will say this, we shouldn't be drinking it every day. Right. A lot of diabetes down here. It's so sad. So start with that. Right? Cause that seems a little mad, a little more manageable than trying to do everything all at once. So start with your drinks and if you don't like playing water, which a lot of people don't find that you've heard that, you know, the other things like just cut up the fruit, throw it in there, squeeze some lemon in there.

Or the tea, you know, maybe don't make sweet tea, maybe start with one sugar packet, you know, and then cut [01:11:00] it down to half a sugar. And then finding, you know, and then eventually you'll find, you know, this year from Boston unsweetened iced tea is great. It's fantastic. Yeah. It's like chocolate. You, if you ever eat chocolate, not like regular chocolate.

And then you start eating real dark chocolate. Yeah. Like 92% Keiko. At first it tastes like trash, the real stuff. And you're like, that's gross, but seriously, take a little bite. Let it settle. Take a little bite. Let it settle. And then it doesn't take even weeks. It's takes a little bit of time. And then you're like, wow, this is really good.

And then you go back to the trash, you've ate for 30 years and you're like, this is disgusting. You can actually taste the chemicals. So listen to Zach, it's a process. And I'm going to add this in and you might, people might hate me, but don't go for the diet. That's like you're, you're taking out sugar, which is bad for you and add the toxic waste chemical [01:12:00] that's gonna make you sicker.

And some of the fattest overweight people, I know like I'm overweight and fat, but I'm doing like gross. Like not you're gross, but grossly overweight, like 350, 400 pounds. People are drinking, diet Cokes, breakfast, lunch, and dinner that stuff's addictive. It's causing more problems. It's enhancing diabetes.

It's giving you cancers down the road. Get that crap out of your diet. If you're going to die, at least do it naturally. Don't don't, don't do it fricking chemicals, man. I, 100% agree. Yeah, just terrible. Right. So that's why we want to start with, just start with drinks. Start by drinking. Like you're doing right now, drinking.

Just water. Yeah. Cool. That's great. You know, and what'll happen is. You're like you said before, you know about the chocolate, your taste buds actually do change. So I couldn't even drink a sweet tea right now. It was just so sweet to me. Your taste buds do change. They physically change. It's not a mental thing.

They physically change. So yeah, start with the drinks. That's what I would say. Start there. It's a [01:13:00] nice small goal. And then from there, start with, you know breakfast and then, you know, say, Hey for lunch and dinner, Amit like garbage, and then I'm just gonna get healthy breakfast and just make the small changes.

And eventually you'll, you will never go back. You will never go back to eating all that crap. Yeah. I agree. A hundred percent unless it's a mental, that, that, let's, that's the last thing I want to touch on. You physically. You'll see. And you're growing mentally and emotionally and you're again healthy. You won't ever want to go back.

You'll see the changes you'll feel the changes, but then as humans, sometimes we have that self-destruct Bonnar we have something happens and then we hate ourselves. Yeah. Right. You know, if you will quit smoking for 20 years, they start smoking 227 chemicals per stick, proven to be cancers, proven to be addictive, but they pick it back up when that happens.

And I know you don't have your, your final degree [01:14:00] yet, but what you saw in your own life, that's worked when you get off the tracks, how do you put it back on the tracks? It's that? I feel like I'm beating a dead horse here, but it's it's that D-Day, it's that, it's that little bit of everything, right?

Let's just say you fall off and you, and you smoke a cigarette for the first time in 20 years, right? It's reaching out to your support system. It's sharpening that sword, so to speak, it's getting in your workout. It's doing all these things that we mentioned and getting, getting right back on track.

Right. And it's not beating yourself up. It's not like, oh, you're terrible for doing this. It's just, no, it's getting back to that positive, positive mindset. Do everything you can. Smoking is a tough one, man. I get it. I, I mean, I've never smoked, but I get it. And this is where the self actually the self-forgiveness I I'd talked about forgiving other people, but the self-forgiveness [01:15:00] that it, this is a funny thing.

When people beat themselves up for smoking a cigarette, they feel so bad. They reach out for another cigarette. So, yeah. Forgive yourself. I think get back on track. Drink that water and get back on track. Yeah, man. All right, Zach. Well, it's been a pleasure now we've talked about your past. Anything we missed.

I want you to go in and back. Talk about it, let's address it. And if not, where's Zach today and where are you going so we can help you get there for sharing. You've helped us so much. How can we as listeners help you? Oh, thank you so much. Really. I mean, my, my next step is finishing up this this therapeutic grade.

I'm just really excited on that. And to help me just help other people, you know, picking up this book and giving it out, I firmly firmly believe in it's the best thing I could have possibly done. You know, keeping it brief and coming at it from every angle. So yeah, picking up the book and sharing the people you think need it.

Awesome, man. Now, is there [01:16:00] anything I know we talked about a special offer and putting the protein, putting the shaken, but is there a special offer or anything that you had for our audience? Yeah, sure, sure, sure. If anybody wants, they can shoot me an email directly. It's just Zach sRutledge@gmail.com and I'll send them a check.

Oh, nice man. They can see, you know, see if it's their, their cup of tea. Beautiful, beautiful. Put a link in the show notes to Zack. We'll put a link in the show notes to the books. You can just order it, pick it up, help Zach support him. If you get a few bucks, you know, and then it's worth it. Like I said, it's small and concise.

It's non-intimidating and again, I have not fully read it yet, but I went through the digital copy and I was loving what I was seeing. And then also we got a picture of Zach on there. So we've got that going on. If you want to see what Zach look likes, if you're not watching the video version. But that's it, man.

Anything else we can do to help use Zack or help you achieve what God's called you to do? [01:17:00] Luckily, I'm feeling pretty good right now, so yeah, I'm just, I'm feeling good. So if there's anything I can do to help you on your mission, you know, just let me know now, man. I mean, share the podcast. Like we tell our listeners, our motto slogan is listen, do repeat.

For life. So don't just listen to this podcast episode, but do it repeated every day. She can have a great life in this world and an attorney to come. So that's our whole focus. So if you're listening now as Zach, or if you're listening now is one of our wonderful, remarkable community members around the world.

Just share it. Just say, Hey, heard this episode, loved it, put it in your social media, send it to a friend. You think might need it. Connect with Zach for coaching. If you have, you can be anywhere in the world and you guys can jump on a zoom call and just, let's try to help each other grow and, and please God, and glorify him.

So I appreciate you, my brother and I thank you for being here today has been truly wonderful. [01:18:00] Appreciate you, man, and everything you do. This is great. Thank you so much again, it's really an honor. Oh, Dave, my honor, as well. Thank you. So for our listeners out there, we love you reach out to Zach, reach out to me if you need anything.

And like we just said, don't just listen, but do it, repeat it and have a great life. We love you. I'm David Pascoe alone. This is Mr. Zach Rutledge, and we love you and we'll catch you next week. Ciao. Bye Zack. Thank you. Bye.