Gambling Addiction & Grace: From a Successful Attorney, to a Failed Bank Robber, to a Redeemed Man ✝️ | The Dr. James W. Smith Story

“It was just a spur of the moment, crazy idea.”– Dr James W Smith

Guest Bio: Dr James W Smith was born and reared in Louisburg (Franklin County) North Carolina where he attended the public schools. He graduated from the former Perry’s High School and later attended North Carolina Central University and NCCU Law School where he earned a Bachelor of Science Degree in Commerce and a Juris Doctorate Degree. His seminary studies were done at Southeastern Theological Seminary, Shaw Divinity School and he eventually earned Master of Divinity and Doctorate of Ministry Degrees from Andersonville Theological Seminary, Camilla, Georgia. Dr. Smith served as Vice Moderator at Large and Moderator of the East Cedar Grove Missionary Baptist Association, Inc., Moderator of Moderators for the General Baptist State Convention of North Carolina, Inc., President of the Interdenominational Ministerial Alliance of Durham and Vicinity (IMA) and a member of the General Board of the General Baptist State Convention of North Carolina. He is the retired pastor of Mt. Calvary MBC.

SHOW NOTES: 

• Website: https://www.dealbyme.com/
• Facebook: www.facebook.com/jsmith9450
• LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jsmith9450
• Twitter: twitter.com/jamessm76539712
• YouTube: YouTube.com/jsmith9450

REMARKABLE LISTENER SPECIAL OFFER:

• N/A

CORE THEMES, KEYWORDS, & MENTIONS:

• attorney, law school, gambling, divorce, crime, incarceration, confinement, African-American attorney, encourage, inspire, transform, transforming lives, only child, single mom, committed Christianity, gambling addiction, bank robbery, mental illness, faith, mental breakdown, time of reflection, acceptance, forgiveness, contemplating suicide, confusion

For more Remarkable Episodes, Inspiration, and Motivation, please visit https://davidpasqualone.com/remarkable-people-podcast/. Enjoy!

Transcript

Gambling Addiction & Grace: From a Successful Attorney, to a Failed Bank Robber, to a Redeemed Man ✝️ | The Dr. James W. Smith Story

From a well-known attorney that just ran for judge, to bank robbery, to the insane asylum, how gambling ruined this man's life, but God turned it all around. All this and more, right now.

The Remarkable People Podcast. Check it out. The Remarkable People Podcast. Listen. Do. Repeat. For Life! The Remarkable People Podcast.

Gambling Addiction & Grace: From a Successful Attorney, to a Failed Bank Robber, to a Redeemed Man ✝️ | The Dr. James W. Smith Story:

Hello, my remarkable friend. Welcome to season nine of our podcast. Yes. Four years, 170 plus episodes, and now we're in season nine, episode one. I am so thankful. [00:01:00] We have Dr. James Smith, who's going to talk about his journey from becoming the first African American attorney in his hometown to robbing, losing everything, robbing a bank, getting committed, and then spending 15 years in prison.

And then you're going to see how God radically Changed his life for the better, and he's going to talk about gambling addictions, the dangers of it, how to avoid it, how to get out of it, and how it really all goes back to a foundation in God. But even if you're not a believer, listen for the practical tips.

Also, listen through the entire episode at, it takes quick turns real fast where you might think it's losing steam or about to end and then boom, we take a 90 degree turn, right? So, when you're in this episode, you're going to actually hear about. Dr. Smith's journey, but you're also going to hear about the details of the bank robbery.

You're going to talk about some of his motivations and how he didn't [00:02:00] even know why then, but now in retrospect he knows exactly why he did what he did. Now he's an author of three books, he has been a minister, he podcasts, and so much more. So stick through this entire episode, not because I'm trying to get you to spend an hour with me.

But because I want you to get as much information you can to be more powerful, to change your life for the better, and glorify God, and help those around you. Second, we have a new sponsor for Season 9, MyPillow. I don't know if you know this, but MyPillow has almost 300 products. And when you use promo code Remarkable, you get...

30 to 80 percent off everything you order for life, just by using promo code, Remarkable. They're supporting our podcast. When you support that great American owned business with no joke products I use every day in love, then you're going to get a huge discount. We're going to get a small [00:03:00] piece of that as an affiliate.

MyPillow gets to continue to be owner operated and stay in business So check out MyPillow. com. You can call up, you can go to the website. Just when you're done, use promo code Remarkable and I'm not kidding.

I used the pillow for years. I have slippers. I have the sheets. I have the bedspread. I have so many MyPillow products and they're all super quality. And now you get up to 80 percent off. So Dr. Smith's here with us today talking about his life story, overcoming gambling addiction. You got 80 percent off at MyPillow.

We're starting season nine and man, we just love you. Thanks for being here. Enjoy this episode. Let us know how we can help you and stick through the end for the special, special story from Dr. Smith and the specifics of the bank robbery.

[00:03:50] David Pasqualone: Hey, Dr. Smith. How

[00:03:52] James Smith: are you today? I'm doing fine. What about yourself?

[00:03:56] David Pasqualone: Man, I'm remarkable and I'm so looking forward to our interview.[00:04:00]

Each week I get emails from you from your podcast and I love to read the descriptions and check them out as I can. And I just want to say thanks for sending those consistently to me. I appreciate it. And for all your listeners, I'm sure they're, they also appreciate it. Right.

[00:04:14] James Smith: I hope so. I definitely hope so.

I'm enjoying doing it.

[00:04:21] David Pasqualone: And ladies and gentlemen, like I just told you a little bit about Dr. Smith in the intro he's going to be able to share a lot more of his story about his podcast, not just his past and where God's led, but where he is today and where he's going, how he can help you, how you can help him, and how the whole world can be better to glorify God and we have peace and joy.

So, At this time, Dr. Smith, we have listeners who've been with us for four years, listen to every episode. We have listeners who are brand new. This is their first episode. So if they commit to listening to your interview, I know they're going to get a lot of gold nugget and truth. But if there's one thing that, [00:05:00] you know, you're going to communicate today that they're able to take and apply to their life, what is that one truth that if they stick through, they're going to at least get that?

Stay focused. And that's a focused statement. I love it. Alright, so ladies and gentlemen, we're about to start Reverend Smith's interview. And when you listen, take notes. Importantly, like our slogan says, don't just listen, but do what you know you need to do. Repeat it each day so you can have a great life in this world, but most importantly, an eternity to come.

So, Dr. Smith, you have a background that I'm familiar with, but let's start the listeners off at the beginning. Where were you born? What was your upbringing like? Mother, father, sisters, brothers, orphanage? Where did your path start for the Lord?

[00:05:52] James Smith: My path started many, many years ago. Of course, I didn't look like a lot of people [00:06:00] did.

I strayed away. I didn't stay with what I knew I should have stayed with. But I grew up in a small town, Lewisburg, North Carolina. Finished high school, college, law school, started practicing law. In 1971, first and only African American lawyer practicing in my hometown. Youngest African American lawyer to practice in the state of North Carolina at the time, 26 years old.

Started gambling lost everything that I had accumulated, including my first wife of five years, and committed a serious crime, and spent five years in, in confinement. Got out in 1986, started pulling my life back together, went back to school received my Master's [00:07:00] of Divinity eventually received my Doctor of Ministry.

In between all of that, I got married again married to a sweet lady now of 33 years, two beautiful kids. And of course, was called to a traditional missionary Baptist church. I stayed at that church for 32 years, just retired in December of past year. I thought I was going to sit back and enjoy myself.

My home church lost her and of

course they called me in to help them out. So I've been working with them now for about two months. Also doing podcasting that I started about six months prior to my retirement because I wanted to encourage, [00:08:00] inspire, and hopefully transform lives. And of course, that's what I've been doing, podcasting now and working as an interim pastor at my home church.

And of course, with any other commitments for workshops inspirational speaking, I do all of that in between. That's it in a nutshell, my friend.

[00:08:22] David Pasqualone: Yeah, that's a lot of information. If you don't mind, we're going to go through it and break down step by step because we don't want to dwell on the past, but as all of us know who we are today is a collection of the past events and knowledge and experiences.

So when you were a child and you're growing up, you said you got. Into law school, you became an attorney, first African American attorney in your town, one of the youngest. The background that you had in the home, was it supportive of you? Like, [00:09:00] go, go, go, go, go, make this happen? Or was it, hey man, just following in line, just do as, you know, the majority's doing?

What was the mentality growing

[00:09:10] James Smith: up in your home? Oh, well, well, say I'm an only child to a single mom. But I did grow up on a farm that my grandfather owned so there were a lot of aunts and uncles a lot of cousins. We all grew up together. My mom left to go to New York to work so that she could help support me through school.

And of course, I would go there during the summers and holidays to spend time with her, but my mom was a very dedicated, committed Christian, so I was always in church, I was always in Sunday school, even as a young person, and it stayed with [00:10:00] me even all the way through. Undergraduate school and law school.

I was, I was always in church. A lot of my friends kind of stopped and partied and never, you know, kind of quit going to church, but I didn't. I always went to church, but after I started practicing law, you know, I still was going to church, but I got off into something else, and that was gambling, and that kind of caused my downfall.

So, you know, but I knew the law. And of course, I think it was my faith that got me back on track. So, you know, that's how I'm where I am now, because of the strong faith that I had and knowing that, you know, that you don't have to give up, that, you know, all you gotta do is admit your faults, admit [00:11:00] that you have done wrong, and accept and confront the situation.

Do all of that and ask for forgiveness. You can get back on the right track and that's what I did. Absolutely.

[00:11:13] David Pasqualone: And that takes seconds and God forgives and gives grace, but sometimes we have consequences. So whether it's through the state, whether it's through our families, whether it's just people we hurt and guilt, you know, what is it?

Convictions from the Lord, but guilt is from Satan, right? He tries to, okay, you might be right with God, but I'm going to make you be ruined and waste your life because you're living in the past. But once you got into, we're going to go from how you got into the gambling and what effect that had on you.

And then we're going to transition to how's that affect your law career, right? But it doesn't matter if somebody is addicted to pornography, food, gambling, it doesn't matter what the so quote unquote drug is. It's all filling an emptiness in our lives. So [00:12:00] you just chose gambling to Medicaid. How were you introduced to gambling and what was the real hook that kept you there?

[00:12:08] James Smith: Well, I was, I was introduced to gambling at a very early age. I had an uncle who gambled and he would always ask me to come over and spend time with his wife while he was away. Sometimes the whole weekend, sometimes a couple of days. And of course, while I was staying with her and the kids, and the kids we started playing a little, little card games, like, like, Petty Pad, Spark, and what have you.

And it was just little small monies, you know, nickels and dimes. And of course, then I got into playing pool. And of course, that was always for a little money, not a whole lot. But then when I started practicing law, I was with a firm [00:13:00] and they were into playing poker. Like, every Wednesday, they would leave the office and go across the street and get into a poker game.

I didn't know that at the time, but when I asked the, the secretary, where was everybody going? She said, you know, just right across the street playing a little poker. So I went across the street, started playing with them, and they taught me the game. And that's how I kind of got into playing poker. So poker was really the game.

And of course, I thought I was pretty good. I started off, you know playing. I would make money. When I said make money, I would win money a lot, lots of time. Came home with thousands of dollars. Sometimes I lose money, lose thousands of dollars. But it was just fun. Everybody was enjoying themselves.

I would, we were playing with professionals, [00:14:00] lawyers, bar instruments, barbers, and what have you. So nobody really worried about money because if one needed 500, they got it from the other one, vice versa, paid them back. So, that's the way it kind of went. But then it got from... It went from my having fun with it and enjoying it to falling in love with it.

And it was that falling in love with it that kind of, I believe, caused me my, my my, my problems. And that's, you know, what happened. But I want to kind of Take it a little further, when I went through this, I really thought that it was because of my gambling, that I did this horrible crime, and the crime was a bank robbery, that I [00:15:00] spent, that I got a 15 year sentence, not bank robbery, but bank robbery, that I got a 15 year sentence, and served five years in confinement, and served five years in confinement.

But when I got out, I realized that I called Gammon Anonymous and they told me I asked them if I'd like to come in and talk with the guys because I I had new thought I could give them some good advice and help them transform their lives, and he asked me if I was still a compulsive gambler, and I told him no, and that's a fact.

I had not gambled since 1981, so I had just quit abruptly, and that was it. And so he said to me that, well, I'm not sure if the [00:16:00] guys would, you know, appreciate what you got to say, because we believe that once a compulsive gambler, always a compulsive gambler. Somewhere like an alcoholic, always.

And so I began to. During, during COVID, I started to write another book, and I wanted to really reflect on what I'd gone through. I did a self evaluation of my whole life, and I came to the conclusion that my problem was not a compulsive gambler, but rather that I had a I was afraid to fail. I had become this, I had become this very well known lawyer in my area.

I was I had gotten an excellent reputation of being a good lawyer, and of course I couldn't see myself going down. I couldn't see myself losing, and I thought [00:17:00] that doing what I did, if I could just recoup, pay off all my bills, get started back, and take care of things, I could start right back where I was, and everything would be okay.

Now, I know that's crazy talk now, but that's the way I was thinking at the time. Yeah, and

[00:17:20] David Pasqualone: you thought, I can even rob a bank. Get back to even and then move on and everything will be fine. Is that correct assumption? That's correct. Okay. So now all this is happening and you're getting deeper and deeper into debt.

Your reputation is great, but at home... Your wife and you, there's issues obviously. She's seeing a deterioration. Are there, is it spilling over into other areas? What happened in the marriage there?

[00:17:52] James Smith: Well, as I said the marriage lasted for five years because I was the way on weekends. I was the way on [00:18:00] weekends.

She you know, it wasn't her fault and I don't think it had nothing to do with her. It had more to do with me wanting my freedom. You know, I didn't want to be nagged when I got in from a weekend of playing poker and so I just said, you know, I'd just rather that we go ahead and separate. And that's what we did.

After five years and divorce, you know so that was how that occurred. Nothing to do with my wife it was more me, I think, but my wife, I have a, a, a good wife, but it, it was the concept of being, why are you going, why you [00:19:00] have to be out all the whole week here, you know, and sometimes I tell her, tell her, you know, that I'm gambling, sometimes I lie about it, because, especially if I lose money, you know, we, we went through this thing of, you know, Well, I'll give you half my wins and just leave me alone.

So all of that kind of stuff. And so I would, if I won, I would give her half of it. But if I lost and I lie about it, that I lost no wage without the amount that I did lose, you know, it would be like, if I lost 500, I would say, I only lost 100. So I give her 50, you understand what I'm saying? So that was the way that kind of worked.

And we just got to the point where I just felt like, you know, I want to be free, you know, and so.

[00:19:50] David Pasqualone: That's where I was going with the question because addiction has so many forms, but the end result and the actions are always the same. Like you had [00:20:00] more passion and desire to go play cards than you did to spend with your wife.

So what I want to do is I'm not exploiting because I'm thankful you're willing to share because by you sharing your story, you can stop other people from making the same mistakes. So there's, you know, three types of people that are listening now. There's people that this won't affect because gambling isn't.

The particular, you know, Achilles heel in their life, there's the people that are about to start gambling that it may just like, you know, an alcoholic, 10 people may have that drink, but one, it literally addicts them for life with just one time. And then you have the person who's currently addicted and they're starting to figure it out.

So, for the person who's not into gambling, what's the advice you give them to like, hey, you know, if you're going to do it, have balance, or just don't even get involved. So what's the advice you give to the person who's not even involved in gambling yet, and what's the advice you give to the person who's in the addiction [00:21:00] right now and their life's unraveling for the worse?

[00:21:04] James Smith: That's a good question, and I'll be honest with you, it's kind of hard to answer. It, it depends upon the makeup of the individual because some people can gamble all of, all of their lives and never become addicted. You know, they can, they can play, play cards, they can play for a little money, they can go to Las Vegas or wherever, Lantern City, and come back and still feel fine.

They can do that for the longest. Somebody else. Who is who will do that? They find themselves whether it's drinking or whatever, they find themselves getting hooked on getting. drawn into it, to the point wherein they [00:22:00] find themselves, you know, doing something, but they've got no business to do it.

So I think it's, it's, if I would say anything, I think I would say, kind of, if you know that something is kind of consuming you, then step back from that. It's one of the things I talk about in my book. You know, if you get to the point wherein and I give some example, you know, your, your, your wife wants to go out to eat on a Those Friday night and or to move on Friday night.

Are you more concerned about going out with the guys playing poker or your son at a softball game that Saturday? Or, or, or, but you're more concerned about. Going out golfing with the boys, you know, it's consuming you. If, if [00:23:00] you get to that point where it's consuming you, then I always say you better step back from it, step back and then reassess and look, this, this, this is getting me now, you know, I, I need to leave this alone.

And, and look at your priorities in your life. And if you can do that, then I think that's the turning point for you. Yeah.

[00:23:24] David Pasqualone: And then. For the people who are addicted right now, you had the privilege to follow God out and you made it to the other side. Again, you might have to be careful the rest of your life, but you made it to the other side.

You're not addicted to gambling, your life is put together, thankfully, and you're helping other men and women get out of gambling addiction. But for the people listening, like you said, it's complex. Everybody's situation is slightly different. But there's foundational elements that are the same. What are some things that people can start doing right now, today, to [00:24:00] act as a catalyst to get out, or at least start the process, and then they can continue the conversation with you, Gambling Anonymous, or a person who has experience in dealing with gambling

[00:24:10] James Smith: addiction?

One of the, one of the things that I perhaps would say is to recognize that you do have a problem. That's the key. And so there's one area that I talk about is confront your situation. You know, confront the source. And if you can confront the source and realize that that's where you are, then you are better able to deal with it.

And, and I think that's most people's problem. They don't confront it. They, they, and it's hard. I have to admit that that's hard [00:25:00] because you, you, you, you loving it so much, you into it your whole body and soul into it until you don't really want to confront it, okay? You want to continue doing it. Hopefully you'll develop friendships or family who will help you get through it.

But you got to be willing to talk to them. And that was one of the problems that I dealt with. I didn't have to go through what I went through. You know, I had family aunts, uncles. I could have just gone to them and said, look, I've lost everything. I'm going downhill. I need some help and I need to get these debts paid off.

Otherwise I'm going to be in serious trouble. Okay. But my thought pattern was, well, They're looking at me. You know, I'm supposed to be the one that's [00:26:00] got it all together. You know, I'm the one in the family who went off to school, who went to law school, who practiced the law, you know, for the last 10 years and has the reputation of being a great, good lawyer.

And so it's hard to, to go back and try to talk to these individuals and say, I need help. And that's what I'm saying. You need to just confront the source. And be willing to talk with somebody to get the help that you need. And that's basically all the way you're going to get out of it. It then, you know, I was, I just happened to be a person of faith.

And if you are a person of faith, you always want your faith to kick in. That's, that's what happened to me. You know, I just believe when I was at the middle hospital after this happened, because they sent me to the middle hospital for a six week [00:27:00] observation while there, I just believe that, look, I'm gonna get through this, you know, this is not gonna keep me down, okay?

I knew that I was going to spend some time. It didn't bother me, because I had my faith that kicked in. I was going to do what I needed to do, get through it, come back, pull my life back together, and I was going to do well. That was my faith doing that to me. And so, everybody may not have that. And so it's kind of hard to, to pinpoint it with everybody.

Some people may have other things that they grab hold to. But whatever that is that's positive that you can grab hold of, then grab hold of that and let that push you through where you need to be.

[00:27:53] David Pasqualone: Yeah, when you're talking, I had this visual image in my head. It's like, if somebody is drowning in the ocean [00:28:00] and a pile of leaves go by and they, they grab onto it, it's fake.

It's going to fall apart and sink, but when actual flotation device comes by or piece of wood, you can grab on and God's going to hold you up. So I'm with you. I know I've dealt with so many things in my life and God's always there. He's there for us. We just trust him and it doesn't mean we're gonna have an easy journey, but we're going to get to the destination safely because God's good.

So when you're talking to someone who right now is like, you know, they're literally trying to fight it, let's say. Obviously, number one, both James and I, if you're listening, we believe in God, and He loves us all. For God so loved the world. There's one race, the human race. Nobody's more, nobody's less. All men are created equal in God's eyes.

He loves them, right? So, if you reach out to God, it says, For whosoever shall call upon Him, the Lord shall be saved. And saved doesn't always mean your problem is going to disappear overnight, but you're sealed eternally, you're with the Lord, you're now his child, and you have the Holy Spirit [00:29:00] dwelling in you.

So you have this power. You have a new power that you never had before. So James, I want you to talk to our listeners who are addicted, whether it's drugs, sex, gambling, whatever it is, that point where you're literally making that decision, you can feel jittery inside, you can sweat, you can feel hot, you can feel angry.

When people are feeling, I want to go gamble. What were the practical things you did to say no and to fill it with something else? Did you have a healthy habit? What did you do when the addiction was creeping in?

[00:29:33] James Smith: Well, see, for me it was, I was at the mental hospital and it was just this

Anything that caused me to do what I did, anything that brought me to this low point in my life, finish with it. That, see, that was me. Now, I've talked with other people who see that, who have [00:30:00] taken a different turn, but that was me. And I just, I, I just pray that Lord will give me the strength and the courage.

To stay focused and not ever go back there again. And I, I, I, I, I caught hold to my faith and I wasn't so sure, but I will say this when I came home from the mental hospital and was, got out on bond, the first thing that my former partner or secretary or whatever wanted to do was for me to come by the office and and sit down and the first thing they did want to offer me a drink.

Okay. Everybody was glad to see me back home and glad to see me out. [00:31:00] So, and they was just kind of partying. Because of where I had been, obviously it was, I was not there anymore. And I, I said, no, I don't want it finished. They didn't believe it, but I knew within myself, it was over. I was finished. Now, everybody else, a lot of folks don't go through that, and, and, and I've talked with some people who have maybe have had to take a different route, and the route that they took was much different from the route that I took, but I, in the midst of it all, I just think you've got to be able to.

Grab hold of something that's going to give you the strength the fortitude to move forward and not give [00:32:00] up in the midst of what you know you gotta do. And for me, it was my fate that somebody else might have something else I don't know.

[00:32:10] David Pasqualone: Well, let's go back too, because you've mentioned this several times.

They put you in a mental institution. Was that standard practice back then? Was it because, like, why would an attorney rob a bank? Were they just confounded? Or were there other issues in your life? Were you exhibiting other signs of mental illness?

[00:32:29] James Smith: It was just what you said. Why would an attorney rob a bank?

That was it. They could not accept and believe that something, that something had not happened to me. That I obviously had a mental breakdown in order to have done what I did. That was just out of my character. And so, They committed me to the hospital [00:33:00] for six weeks for the evaluation, but it had nothing to do with anything prior in my life.

Never exhibited anything like that. And there was no reason, you know for anybody to think that. Except for what I did, and then obviously being the lawyer that I was and everything I was, everybody, including friends, family, everybody thought that something obviously had to click, you know, like a mental breakdown or what.

And that was the reason I was committed to do I Did The Exhaust Poem.

[00:33:38] David Pasqualone: So let's do this if you don't mind, you know, that moment of robbing the bank. And then being committed, that could be one of the best pieces of your life, or it could be one of the worst pieces of your life. I know it obviously was a catalyst to healing, so it turned out well, but I'm sure six weeks in a mental hospital during the early 80s was not fun.

Not the same standards as today,

[00:33:57] James Smith: right? [00:34:00] Well, you know, I'm having a hard time comparing it to today, because I was way back in 81, so I really don't know what it would be like on a day. Yeah, it was not a, it was not a great experience. I can, I can say that, but at the same time, it was, it was something that gave me time to reflect.

Okay. I had that time to reflect and you, you wouldn't believe those three weeks that I was there, all I could do was basically reflect, you know, it was that, how did this happen to me? How did I get myself in this kind of trouble? You know, what was going on? You know, gee, I can't believe I did this. You know, all of those type things were part of my whole reflection.

And now that I've dealt with all of this, now the key is, how am I going to handle it? You know, am I [00:35:00] going to give up some of those things that I thought may have had something to do with it? You know? You know, I, I would take, you know, when I went to Gamblin, you know, we had the girlfriend or the wife the people, we had this little circle, you know, we had big spreads, we could eat, I mean, it was just, it was just so much fun, you know, and, and, and so my how did I get out, how did I get into all of this?

So now, in order for me to see differently and take a different route, I gotta make a change. And that's what I did. I just said, look, I'm making a change. You know, I'm not gonna be the same person that I once was. And that's what I did. Now, I have to admit that everybody may not make that same [00:36:00] route, may not take that same route.

But that's the route that I, I had to take, as I told you about it. You know, those things differ, you know some people may have, some else they could have grabbed onto, I don't know, you know, but that, that was it for me. My mom was very committed, talked to me, I had friends pray with me ministers came by the house, prayed with me because everybody just couldn't understand what happened, and all of this helped me to.

I've been trying to my faith, until the point where I can, look, I can, I can deal with this. You know, I tell people right now, and many people don't believe it, but I tell people right now, I shouldn't say they don't believe it, they may, I'm [00:37:00] just saying that that my confinement added five years to my life, I believe.

You know, it was, it was actually, I knew I was gonna have, I knew what I had to do, but I went through with no infractions, period. I played tennis, you know, I refereed basketball games. I worked in the education department. I worked with the chaplain. I was the only person at the time that I was there who got a chance to leave the institution.

I was in Ashland, Kentucky, to leave the institution twice, to go on seminars, I was a part of the prison fellowship. I went to Starlestown, Pennsylvania, and I went to Washington, D. C. One of those times, they allowed me to leave the prison, fly out by [00:38:00] myself, and come back by myself. No guards, no nothing.

So it had gotten to the point, they, they could not even, or they wouldn't even tell inmates where I was going, when I left, inmates thought I had gone back to court. That's just how my life went when I was confined, but it was only because, I think, it was only because of where I had taken myself. I had just gotten to the point wherein I'm going to accept this, the Lord is, I know the Lord has forgiven me, I've messed up, I've confronted what I did, I asked for forgiveness, what else do you do except get up and get your life back together.

Yeah, yeah, and

[00:38:53] David Pasqualone: then, like you talked about, everything that works in our lives, short term and long, is God. It's in the Bible, [00:39:00] 100%. There's no comment, there's no wisdom, quote unquote, that works Anywhere, in any culture, at any time, that doesn't stem and show proof in the Bible. And they're saying, you know, you have time to reflect.

God talks all over the Bible. Be still and know that I'm God, you know, to meditate on the Lord and on our actions. So that's fantastic. Kind of in, and I don't know, maybe to you it won't be humorous or light, but everybody's wondering, everybody loves a good story. What happened with the bank robbery?

You know, who did you meet? Did you meet people that led you into it? Were you the one that saying plant the seed in your head and concoct this? But talk about the robbery to bring us through. How'd you get caught? Was it one of those things where it was just stupid from the start? Was it, you almost got away with it?

You know, what, what was that robbery like?

[00:39:47] James Smith: Oh, I don't mind talking about it. I'll tell you how it was like. I didn't, I didn't get up that morning to rob the bank. I got up that morning with my, and pulled a [00:40:00] pistol out of my drawer beside my bed and went to my office. I sat there contemplating committing suicide.

That's what I sat there contemplating doing. And had it not been for my mom, being the only child, and just dealing how she What I would feel about this what I would be doing to her, I kind of abandoned that idea and just left my office, locked the door, and started riding around the city. I got on the interstate and started riding it was about 10 o'clock in the morning, I started getting a little hungry so I guess it would be about 10, 30, 11 o'clock, I ended up in a city called Oxford.

I restaurant eating, and when I looked out at the, out of the wonder at the restaurant eating, right across [00:41:00] from where I was eating was the CCB bank, okay? Now all of a sudden, my mind started rolling, gee if I could just get in this bank and get me fifty, a hundred thousand dollars, I'll just pay off all my bills, I can go back to the office, and things will be all over, behind me, and...

I'll be over and I can get started again. That's what happened. This

[00:41:34] David Pasqualone: wasn't a well thought out plan weeks in the making. It was spontaneous. Like saying was messing with your head. You brought your depression. So depressed. You were committed. You were thinking of committing suicide. You decided against that you're eating and you see a bank and it's like evil.

[00:41:52] James Smith: That's it. It just, it just. Wow, you know, if I can get in here and get out with me, 1, [00:42:00] 500, 000, I could pay off all these debts. Cause I, you know, I lost my home, I lost all the problems I've accumulated. I mean, I was head over head in debt, you know and that's where I was that's, that's, that was the concept.

So it wasn't anything that I had thought about three or four weeks ahead of time that this is what I'm going to do, but that was not the case.

[00:42:25] David Pasqualone: And then what happened once you went? So you have a gun, you're eating, and you decide to go rob a bank. How does that, how did it go down?

[00:42:32] James Smith: Oh, interesting. It was very, very interesting.

I, you know, I, I did continual legal education, CLE, for the North Carolina State Bar for 11 years. I just quit. When COVID came in, and that was one of the main things the lawyers asked me when I was, you know, I taught ethics and mental health and substance abuse. Well, how'd it happen? You know, what, what, [00:43:00] how did you get caught?

You know, one of the first things. And I had no problem talking about it. Well, you wouldn't believe this. I went into the bank. I drove around for a while because I couldn't get the nerve to do that. I drove around and then all of a sudden, I wrote it in my book, all of a sudden I just said, hey, you know, get caught or not, make no difference.

And I just drove right up to the door, went right into the bank and said, stick up, give me your money. Now, the court records will show this, that I had already unloaded the pistol because I didn't want to make a mistake and somebody did something and the gun went off and I killed somebody.

Court records will verify that. [00:44:00] But after I did that, I ran out of the bank. And this is the funny part. I got about ooh, less than a half a mile away from the bank. Got stopped by a police officer. Now, you gotta understand, I had run for district court judge in 1976, well known in, in the five county area.

All the lawyers, police officers, everybody knew me. Police officer came up to the car and of course, obviously the, the, so that was obviously placed in, in the bag and it had gone out and I was, had stopped the car and I was sitting there wiping my eyes, you know, because it started me to actually crying.

I, I got out, got the bag out, threw it across the field and just sat there in the car. [00:45:00] And when the police officer came up to me, he said, lawyer. You okay? And I said, yeah, I'm fine. He said, you sure? I said, yeah, I'm okay. He said, okay, you know, going on. I started the car, pulled off and went about another half a mile, maybe a mile, got stopped by a highway patrol.

And while the highway patrol was talking to me, the police officer came by and said, I just stopped him. He said, he's okay.

I left two offices and it kicked into me that, look, they know that it [00:46:00] was me, and they're going to soon find out it was me. So I decided I would go straight to my former partner's office. Now in the midst of all this, you know, my partners and I had kind of gone our separate ways because of my gambling, okay?

But I went to my former partner's office and called one of the other lawyers, told them, well, the secretary did. And when I walked in, I told her what had happened, and she couldn't believe it. But I finally convinced her. You know, I say, you know, I've just thrown her with my whole law practice, you know, she said, what?

I said, I just throw my whole law practice down, I just robbed a bank. And she's looked at me, she said, no, you didn't do that. You know, she couldn't believe it. So she called my, called one of the lawyers from the majority of town to come up. And by the time they got there, a whole row [00:47:00] of law enforcement officers had pulled up into the driveway.

He went out and told them that I was there. And I was prepared to turn myself in and went to the manager's office. I was placed at a 100, 000 bond. Next day I was committed to Dorothea Dix Normal Hospital. That's, that's kind of what, the way that unfolded.

[00:47:23] David Pasqualone: Man. And so when you left that bank, did you have any face mask on or you just went in as yourself, not even a mask?

I

[00:47:31] James Smith: just went in as myself. No mask. The only thing that I had, I was, I was a I shouldn't say tennis player, but I used to play tennis, so I had what's called tennis vibe. You know, I had the tennis vibe over, over my head. But that was all I had. I didn't no mask on or anything. I just, I, it was, I, it was nothing that I, [00:48:00] when I think back of, I think about how silly and crazy it was, you know, and, and how easily I, I could have been recognized, you know, it was just crazy.

It wasn't. It wasn't anything that, that was tried to evade. I just, I just, it was just a spread of the moment, crazy idea. And it happened. That was it. Yeah. Now,

[00:48:25] David Pasqualone: looking back though, you know, hindsight's 2020. Do you feel like darkness has blinded your eyes and Satan oppressed you and you made these decisions motivated by his leading?

Cause you, you know, you weren't moving the right way in life. You were far from God. Or do you feel like there was some kind of mental disconnect? And it was just self sabotage, like, your conscious mind knew, this is stupid, I'm robbing a bank, I was thinking about suicide, I might as well get arrested instead of killing myself.

Like, do you think you were setting yourself up subconsciously, or [00:49:00] do you think it was Satan totally just screwing

[00:49:02] James Smith: you? I think that's it. I really do. I think that's it. The more I've thought about it, I think that was it. Because there was no rational aspect about it. You know, I definitely think that was it.

I was, it, you know, I gotten so confused, you know losing what I had cherished the most. It gone. And I, my wife and I have separated and you know, you, you don't, you don't, you, it is hard for you to understand where I was that I said I had just, I had just run for district court judge. In, in, in, in the five county area.

And had I had the law been like it is now I would have been the first African American district court judge in that district. Everybody knew me, you know, I was very, I was a prominent. [00:50:00] Lawyer in, in, in, in my five county district, and now all of a sudden I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm here at the bottom. I, I was mixed up.

I, and I just did some crazy stuff. I, I, and I, I said just like that. I just did some crazy stuff and I admit it and all I know is when I got out. My mom told me, she said, now son, you can go and lie down in that ditch if you want to, or you can put your head in the sand, and all folk gonna do is come by and, and kick more dirt on you, or they're gonna push your head further in the sand, and, but if you would just get up, some of these same folk will give you a helping hand.

I took their advice. I didn't give up. I was persistent, and I moved forward, and man, [00:51:00] have I been blessed. In three books, Pastor of Missionary Baptist Church, traditional, with about 200 members, active, about 100 members on Sunday morning, for 32 years. 32 years. Just, just retired, past decent, and even called now to my home church to help them out because the pastor died of broke.

And I'm serving as editor until they get a pastor. I've served as moderator of our association, consisting of 43 churches. I've also appointed by the president of the general Baptist state convention of North Carolina as moderator of moderators of all of the. Association in the state of North Carolina.

The state bar [00:52:00] approved me as a sponsor of continuing legal education, efforts to help with substance abuse. And I've served in that position for 11 years. All they wanted me to do is share with lawyers, you know, my story because they thought that other lawyers could be helped and learned from that.

I've been blessed. So I, I, I have no complaints. As, as, as I said, tell everybody. My confinement, I wouldn't want to go through it again, but having gone through it, I mean, it gave me a wealth of knowledge. I tell everybody, I think I gained five years to my life. I'm now 79 years old. I feel just as good as, obviously, 79 in December.

I feel great. I think it took five years off my mom's life, of course, but, you know, But I think she'll be very pleased, very proud of me. [00:53:00] I'm sure she is.

[00:53:01] David Pasqualone: So, you know, where we've been makes us the men and women we are. And thank you for sharing your story with us today, Reverend. And before we go and wrap this episode up, from your birth, Is there anything we missed in your story before we transition to where you are today and where you're heading?

We kind of touched on it, but like how people can contact you, you know, how, what's the best way to reach you if they want to continue the conversation? But first, is there anything we missed through your birth to today?

[00:53:34] James Smith: Not that I can think of. I, you know, it's a long story and I tried to just kind of put it in a seat.

You know, from growing up in a small town to finishing law school to practicing to the confinement, you know, to what I did out seminary, pastoring, and now I'm doing podcasting and working as [00:54:00] a, as an eminent pastor. So I think I've tried to cover basically all of it. You know, there might be more details in each one of them, but it would take much more time than we've got to follow that, you know, that's about where it is, you know, I've written, I've written three books one that's, that talks about my, my life experience, and obviously, I started doing that one, not as a book, I started writing it more as therapy when I was confined.

I'm David Pasqualone. And when I got out, a couple of people read it, and they were the ones who convinced me to put it into a book. So that book was entitled, Deal By Me. I got an opportunity to get blown. Some people asked me, they said, how'd you get your title? And so I told them, I said, well, you know, the deal by me came from the poker.

You don't want your next hand, [00:55:00] you say deal by me. I don't know if you know anything about card games. They said I don't want your next hand, deal by me. That's what A Deal By Me came from. The Golden Opportunity to Blown means obviously I lost my law practice. So that was A Deal By Me, sub topic, The Golden Opportunity to Blown.

So, I wrote that book and of course I hadn't, I, in between that time I started working as moderator, moderators for the General Baptist State Convention, and the president wanted me, because I had a legal background, wanted me to work with churches that had, were dealing with conflict. Thank you.

And so, I wrote a book on conflict as a title, Come Let Us Reason Together, and that's based upon, you know, my experience working with churches and trying to, to mediate a certain conflict within, within the church. And then when COVID came in, I was sitting at the house, not doing anything, [00:56:00] and I began to do a self evaluation talking about what I really learned from what I went through.

And that's when I wrote the second book, which is Dear Black Man, second edition a self evaluation. And that's when I was telling you that I came to the conclusion that I was not a compulsive gambler, but rather that I was afraid to fail. And that's what, you know, caused me to rob the bank. I I just couldn't see myself, you know, losing it.

And so I thought I could just recoup. And so that's in that book. So that's basically it, you know more detailed or in the books I mean, how I got into gambling, all that type stuff in the first book. So it's It's interesting interesting reading. I got a lot of comments on it, a lot of reviews, so [00:57:00] that's my life.

Yeah,

[00:57:03] David Pasqualone: and I thank you for sharing. If we have, if you have links, if they're on Amazon, we'll put them in your show notes so people can click and check them out. Yeah. And for those of you who aren't, you know, we have people from all over the world. I thank God. We just broke into the top 0. 5 percent of all podcasts around the globe.

And I was shocked. I'm just so thankful for our community. But for those of you who aren't familiar with the term bail, that's just another name for Satan and the love of money. And one of my good friends, Jim Butler, and I were just talking today, which I'm sure you'll agree with Reverend Smith, that money is not evil.

Money is a tool. It's the love of money that's evil and that consuming just lust. So if you have money, nothing wrong, share it, do good with it. But if you love it and that's your only motivation, that's where you got to self reflect and get right with God. So, well, let me ask you one more question then.

Your shirt for our listeners. They're not seeing [00:58:00] your shirt, but for our viewers on YouTube and Rumble and our website, talk about your shirt because you're a gambling addict in a way, you know? It ruined your life, so I'd definitely classify that as your former addict at least. And your shirt has a two of spades on it, right?

But talk about what it says and what it means and why most people don't put a two of spades out

[00:58:20] James Smith: there. Well The space right here is the card. Now in the, I have, this was my first design, but on my other shirt, that's really the ones that people are getting it's the emblem is right in here that has deal by me in the emblem.

And it has the, it's, it circles the cards. So that's the, that's my emblem. And it's encouragement, inspiring, and transforming. And that's my podcast, and that's what I do on [00:59:00] my podcast. I talk with guests who have some amazing stories, and one of the things I always ask them to tell them that you know, I'm in the ministry, and I'm about encouraging.

What is it that they will say to anyone who's going through this and that, kind of that depends on what the situation is that will give, that will encourage them or inspire them and hopefully transform their lives, and they kind of talk about it. And that's my podcast. I've been doing it now for just a little over a year, and I'm still growing it.

I have just... Just done my one hundred and, I think, sixteen. One hundred and sixteenth podcast. I've been averaging about two publishing about two a week.

[00:59:57] David Pasqualone: Man, that's fantastic. That's a lot of work. We do one a week, [01:00:00] and I'm busy, so I give you credit. So now, let me ask one more question. Most people put an ace of spades out there.

Why a two of spades? What's a two of spades represent?

[01:00:09] James Smith: That didn't mean anything particular. It could have been an ace. It was a card that was what I wanted to display.

[01:00:20] David Pasqualone: Gotcha, gotcha, gotcha. I was just asking, it seemed unusual, but I figured there was a purpose behind it, but I'm sure there's a purpose even if, even if you don't know it yet.

So Reverend Smith, it's been an honor having you on the show. What's the best way for listeners to reach out to you if they have questions about gambling addiction, your books, or just, you know,

[01:00:41] James Smith: just... My website is www. DealByMe. com. Name on my book, Deal By Me. com. On my website, they can get copies of my book.

If they want an autographed copy [01:01:00] of all my books, they can get a t shirt that has my emblem and what you see here. And of course, for my books, they can order that also on Amazon. com.

In my website, I also do inspirational speaking. I do church conflict workshops, virtual and in person. So any of that if you want to just talk with me send me, contact me through my website, and we'll set up something on Zoom Riverside or whatever is the best way that we can communicate, and we will go have a nice...

Virtual Conversation.

[01:01:46] David Pasqualone: Beautiful. Well, we have a remarkable God. He's created a remarkable son and man in you. Thank you for being on the show today, Reverend Smith. Well, and thank you for having me. Oh, it's been an honor. Ladies and gentlemen, [01:02:00] thank you for sticking through this entire episode. Don't forget two, three very important things.

Number one, God loves you. He really does, that's just not in a saying. Number two, don't just listen to great content. But do it. Repeat it each day. You're going to have a great life in this world and most often, most important, turning to come. And number three, check out our sponsors. Shop with them. Not only are you getting amazing products from MyPillow using promo code Remarkable, you're going to save 50 to 80 percent on the average order for the life.

Just use promo code Remarkable. Everything, almost 300 products at MyPillow. com, but a portion of that goes back to support the podcast. We can keep bringing you remarkable episodes like Reverend Smith. So, God loves you. Do what you know you got to do that's good each day and repeat it and go shop at MyPillow.

com and our other sponsors. Use promo code Remarkable. [01:03:00] Save a ton of money, get awesome products, and help support the podcast. That's it. I'm David Pasqualone. This was Reverend Smith. We love you. We'll see you in the next episode. Ciao.