Sean Sullivan | Autism, Severe Boarding School Abuse, Torture, Rape, & the Great Kayak Escape

"Never give up. Never give in. Never surrender." - Sean Sullivan

EPISODE OVERVIEW: 

Can you imagine sending your autistic son to a boarding school where you trust he is going to receive the best care, and come to find out he was raped? Then, to make matters worse, the next boarding school you send him to holds him hostage for over a year and a half, makes him sleep outside like an animal, and torments him everyday?  Today's guest can not only imagine what it's like, but lived it. Watch or listen now to hear this inspiring story of personal endurance, steadfastness, and love. And how he escaped these terrible people in a Kayak, raised bus fare to go home, and finally was reunited with his biological parents. Ladies and Gentlemen, welcome to the Sean Sullivan story!

GUEST BIO: 

Sean was born with severe autism, and it was thought that he would never be independent, self-aware, or ever have an IQ higher than 30!! But he worked excessively hard to beat the odds and to be the founder of I Know Autism Foundation, it's director of marketing and fundraising!

Currently Sean is writing a book on his experiences at the Crater Lake School in Oregon. Here are a couple of articles online that talk about it:

• https://www.strugglingteens.com/archives/1997/8/np01.html
• https://www.seattlepi.com/local/article/Crater-Lake-School-will-close-1133634.php

As well as my trip from an unnamed boarding school to California starting out with not even a penny!!

EPISODE PROUDLY SPONSORED BY: 

• Ascend 2 Glory: Sales & Marketing Video Guide
• Hanging Out with David Pasqualone & Friends Podcast

SHOW NOTES, GUEST CONTACT INFO, SPECIAL OFFERS, & OTHER RESOURCES MENTIONED:

Guest Contact Info:

• https://iknowautism.org
• https://www.facebook.com/IKNOWAUTISM.org/
• https://www.linkedin.com/in/iknowautism/
• https://www.alignable.com/santa-ana-ca/i-

Transcript

Sean Sullivan | Autism, Severe Boarding School Abuse, Torture, Rape, & the Great Kayak Escape

Can you imagine having a child with autism and sending him away to boarding school where you think he's gonna be safe and thrive and he ends up being sexually molested. So then you take him and send him to another boarding school where he's supposed to be safe and thrive. And for over a year and a half, they torture him like in a concentration camp mentally, emotionally, and physically.

Then he escapes in a kayak, all this and more in this week's remarkable episode of the remarkable people podcast, the Sean Sullivan story.

 The remarkable people podcast, check it out.

The remarkable people podcast. Listen, do repeat for a Pete for life.[00:01:00] 

 Hey friends. Today's an episode like we've never had before. We have a young man who was sent to boarding school for his benefit. And it turned out to be a disaster, not once but twice. So his story is engaging. It's charming. It's entertaining. But it's also mind blowing. It's real, it's unfiltered. And you're about to hear how this young man was sexually molested.

Pretty much tortured at another boarding school was taken to a camp supposedly for a field trip outing. They took away his shoes. And at 2:00 AM, he sees a kayak and uses the stars in the Seattle space needle to find freedom. So this is a packed episode. It's got a little bit of a slower pace because you're gonna hear why, but it is [00:02:00] great to give you time to process and appreciate what you're about to hear.

Also, if you can do some research, let's work together, the people. Hurt sh have never been. They closed the facility down, but these people got away according to what Sean's telling us. So, Hey, if you're in the area, if you know the story, if you're seeing these people or any name, sound familiar, reach out to Sean and I, and let's get after 'em because these people deserve to be in prison and you're gonna hear why.

So I'm David Pasco alone. This is the Sean Sullivan story. Get ready to be inspired and appreciate life more right now.

Copy of RPP E96 Sean Sullivan INTERVIEW: Hey, Sean, how are you today, brother? I'm doing fantastic. Thank you for asking. Oh, I'm glad to hear that. I just told our listeners a little bit about you and your story, and we are all [00:03:00] pumped and excited to hear your journey.

So at this time we're gonna go through your life journey where you've been, we're gonna get to where you're at today and then where you're going. And hopefully we know you're gonna help us encourage and motivate us. And then hopefully we're gonna help you get to your Des next destination sound. Sounds better than good.

Awesome. So, Sean, let's start off at the beginning. Your ch your child, your birth, where were you born and what was your family like growing up? So like, were you born in New Jersey? Were you born in New Mexico? Were you born in Africa? Where were you born? I was born in Vermont. Okay. Very nice. But if you ask me there's way too many.

Too many trees do . Do you have allergies? I do. I, I have a lot of environmental [00:04:00] allergies. Yes. I am from Milford mass originally. And so I've been to Vermont many times and when it blooms, it can be bad for us with hay fever. Right. Exactly. All right. So what, what was your childhood like? Did you have mom, a dad, brothers, sisters.

What was your family like? Growing up? I had a mom and a dad. I still do. They're very supportive of, of me. And we.

Moved to New Jersey. Because my dad had gotten a job in New York city [00:05:00] at a pretty big insurance company. While I was at New Jersey,

which was for roughly 16 to 18, so. Okay. And then did you have any brothers or sisters or were you the only child? I, I had three or four brothers in. Okay. Three or four. Yeah. But later on and I'll talk about this a little bit later, but my dad remarried and ha had more kids. Okay. So you have more stepbrothers and sisters.

Yes. Yeah. I have three [00:06:00] stepsisters and a stepbrother myself. Oh, cool. So, yeah. So you got just a bigger family, right? Yeah. So when you were born, did you immediately, did they know you had autism or was it something that they figured out later as you grew up? It was something they've figured out as I grew up the, the main doctor who was supposed to facilitate my, for sure. Say my birth had. A emergency to take care of. So he wasn't able to do it. So he had one of his assistance to it. [00:07:00] I believe that, and I don't have any proof proof of this. This, this is just one of my opinions. But. I believe that if the main doctor had done it I would not have autism. Again, I could, I, I, I could be wrong.

That's just what I, what I think does that make sense? A hundred percent so. What happened was your other brothers and sisters, they do not have autism. Is that correct? That's correct. And then when you were born, it wasn't the regular doctor. So your parents and you [00:08:00] suspect that maybe there was some malpractice or negligence, or even just an accident because of an experience and it affected your cognitive development, your brain and your, and your, just your, your being.

Is that, is that what you're. A hundred percent. Yeah. Okay. So now when you're growing up, what was childhood like dealing with autism and especially in a home that had brothers and sisters, who weren't, was it difficult? Were they understanding what was it like growing up as an autistic young man for a lot of the time my bylaws and sisters.

Didn't even know I had autism. But. Yeah, by the, before you go on, how old are you right now, Sean? I'm 45. How old are you? 35. You're 35. So [00:09:00] from my generation to yours, just that one 10 year span, we didn't even know what autism was when I was a kid. And it was just starting to come to a surface when you were a kid.

So is that what you're, what you're saying? Like, it wasn't even really diagnosed much back then. Well, To my, that was it, it, it was diagnosed in my generation. But

my parents didn't realize that this something was wrong. They didn't realize that. I had something called autism and therefore they didn't take me to[00:10:00] 

a diet doctor's office because they didn't think that, that there was any need. Got you. So did they send you to public school? When did you start? When did they start recognizing that you were struggling? I would say when I was rec between the ages of five and 10, five and 10. Okay. And were you going to public school at this point?

Private school homeschool. I was still in. The special education system. Okay. And then was that a good experience for you or was that, did I would, I would say it was a better experience for me than [00:11:00] it, it would've been if I was in, in the public school system. 

So between when you were born and when you're about 10 years old now, and they figure out that you you're gonna be put in this special education program, is there anything else that happened in your life that was significant.

That you want to talk about or do you wanna move forward in the story to get to the part that you and I discussed over the phone? That I can immediately come up with? Nothing SU significant happens? No. Okay. So then how did you go from special education school? Where did you go from there? Did you go to high school? Did you go to public school? Did you go to boarding school? [00:12:00] Where did your life go at that point? I at that point I continued to go to different special education schools until.

I was the age of,

I wanna say 13 or 14. Okay. And then did your brothers forgive me? How many brothers and sisters? I know you said you had four, but how many brothers and how many sisters were there? I have two brothers and one. So there's four of you, two brothers, one sister. And how did you guys? My, my, my two brothers actually are identical twins.

Oh, wow. So they had an extra close bond besides being [00:13:00] brothers. They had a, a close bond that only twins have. So did you, you feel close to them or did you feel a distance

off and on, off and on. Yeah. All right. What about your sister? Did you feel, did you feel close to her back then? Or was there a distance there? Sometimes we get along and, and sometimes we don't like normal brother and sister or yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. yeah. Okay. So then when you, you were about 15 where do you go to school from there?

What happens in your life and your family? I went to different boarding schools. Okay. And why boarding schools to get you the special education you need? Was your home, did they move? What, what was going on to send you to boarding school? The school district? [00:14:00] We recommended it to my parents and my parents.

They, they agreed to it because they wanted the best care for you to get you the best education. Yeah. How, however, they didn't realize that boarding schools would have

a very. Bad effects on me. Yeah. What we're gonna talk. About's really incredible. Yeah. Before we get to that point though, were you excited to go to boarding school or did you not want to go? I wasn't excited at all and I'm sure your parents loved you and didn't want you to go, but they felt it was the best thing for you.[00:15:00] 

Is that correct? That is grew. They thought it was the best thing for me as well as the school district Israel. Okay. So the school districts recommend it to your parents. Your parents are considering this, then they decide to send you to boarding school. At this point, you were, your parents were in New Jersey still?

That's correct. Okay. And then where did they send you to boarding school? They sent me to boarding school in Pennsylvania in, in Delaware in Oregon and Michigan. No, that's a lot of boarding schools. So go through each one. What happened at each boarding school that made you move to another.[00:16:00] 

So in Pennsylvania, I,

I moved to a different board. The reason why the, the Pennsylvania boarding school didn't work out was because I I

didn't, I really didn't like it. And so I continued to, to try and just leave. And get back home because I,[00:17:00] 

I didn't like being away from home until I,

I guess the professional term as is running away anding. I, I, I guess. Yeah. Instead of running away from home, you're running to home. Yeah. well, let, let's do this. So you go to Pennsylvania and then you try to run away. So then they tell you, you need to go to a different boarding school. Is that correct?

That's correct. And then where do you go from there? Uh, From there I go to a boarding school in Delaware. Okay. And was that school a good school and you just didn't want to be there again or did anything happen? [00:18:00] It was even worse. Steven was. Okay. Describe worse, like your loneliness and your sadness was worse or did they treat you badly? They treated me badly.

How, how did, what did they do or what, what was life like there? While there I I , I

was. Sexually abused. I'm sorry. Was it by the staff that abused you or by other students?

One other student [00:19:00] by another student. Did you, yeah. When you told. Did you tell someone right away? Were you scared? I, I told someone what away and what happened at that point? They

took me to Question me about it on a couple of different occasions and the end result

was And what did your parents say about all this? Did they believe you, or did they [00:20:00] side with the police? What did they think? They believed me. Okay. So then they pulled you out of that school and sent you to Oregon? That's correct. Yeah. Okay. And Oregon is where things got really crazy, right?

That's correct. Okay, so let's talk about Oregon. Do you remember that part of Oregon? It was. Was it like Medford? Was it central point? Was it Eugene? Do you remember the part of Oregon? This was in,

I believe it was in and comma falls. Oh, Klamath falls at Southern Oregon. I know exactly where that. Okay. So talk about that. So now your parents, you get sexually abused. They're sending you to a board in school to get you help. So then they find out [00:21:00] about another school in Oregon and they send you there and talk about this.

What happens at this point in your journey, Sean? So at this point in my journey, I'm Very daught. I'm very, I'm feeling a lot of negative emotions because of all the many boarding schools that I've been sent to. And things only get, get worse from you. I,

while I was at the school, I was forced to [00:22:00] sleep outside on the concrete with no covers and no pillow. Students and teachers would pour cold water water on me while I was asleep.

I was not allowed to go out in the community. And when I asked the question. Why, why are you doing this to me? And what did I do to deserve this? Their response was you deserve it because you have autism. Now, [00:23:00] what kind of school was this? Was it a school that was supposed to help with autistic students?

Or I was the one, I was the only one with, with autism room. So how did you end up at that

school? Like how did your parents find out about that school to make them send you there? The.

The school marketed themselves to be a

disability safe basically. Gotcha. But. That wasn't the case job. Were there other kids there with disabilities or was it yes. Okay. [00:24:00] Okay. Now sleeping outside year round with no covers or pillow. What, how did they even justify that? I mean, that's stuff that happens in prison camps. What, why did they do that? And what did they say?

What was their excuse for that kind of horrific treatment?

They

didn't give a, an excuse at all. They didn't give a reason at all. I can only imagine that

the. Logic was [00:25:00] that they

hated me for a unknown reason. And I, I, I don't know. I, I don't know why. I've I, I asked them Numerous times. But they gave the, the same answer of the hundreds of times that I've asked them, which is you deserve it because you have autism. Okay, I'm gonna ask you a couple more questions then I'm gonna let you just move on with your story, cuz it's such a powerful, powerful story.

I just wanted to make sure we kind set up the framework for this, the P what was the name of that school in Oregon? Cuz I, I [00:26:00] don't wanna jump ahead. But at this point, what was the name of the school? Crater lake school crater lake. School. Okay. Crater lake school. Okay. Kind of, kind of like the then national Oregon plug.

Yep. Crater lake is a beautiful place. I've gone there many times. Yes. It's it is gorgeous. It is absolutely gorgeous. So the CRA lake school, now let me ask you a couple more questions before we move forward while this abuse was going on. They're treating you badly. They're telling you, you have a disease of autism.

Was there anyone at that school at that boarding school that was kind to you? Like, was there other students, was there any faculty, did anybody treat you nicely? There were a, a, a couple people. But , but.[00:27:00] 

They did it in, in secret because they were afraid that they would get treated. Similarly, if they were, were, were found, treated me with D dignity. By the other students and teachers. And then at this time, how long was this? I know you're going to, we're gonna get to the point where they take you on a field trip, but how long was this going on for?

Like from the time you got there until the time you go on the field trip, you're gonna tell us about how long was that. So in total, I was there for. About a year and a half a year and a half. They had you sleeping [00:28:00] outside. No sheets, no covers, no pillows for a year and a half. I'm being totally. Yes, definitely.

Yeah, no, no. I'm just making sure that our listeners understand the timeline and the cruelty of this. Okay. So talk about. Now, the last question I have before you share the story and I'm gonna stop talking. What about your parents? Did you get to talk to them during this year and a half? Did you tell them?

I did. Yeah. And what did they say? They thought I was overacting. They, they thought I was just imagining it. So based on. Up until you went to boarding school, there was no issues with your relationship with them or trust or stories, correct? Like there was no history of you lying to them, is that correct?

Yes. [00:29:00] And then when you got sexually assaulted, molested in that first facility, now they're like, we believe our son, but they can't prove it. And now you go to another facility. And now it's another like very strong accusation. So now they're starting to question, oh, maybe it is our son lying to come home.

Is that what, what was going on hundred percent? Yeah. Okay. So now let's just talk about this. You're being tortured for a year and a half. You're being treated like not even a human. Tell us the story.

So.

The

authorities

after months and months of running away, being brought [00:30:00] back by the police, running away, being brought back by the police, the police finally. Thought of the possibility that something might be going on. They, and so just as the, the school, wasn't about to be shut down or be investigated and ultimately be shut down.

The school took us on a, out in on a field trip from the school in Oregon [00:31:00] to a.

In Washington under the geese of a field trip. But it really , but it really was for the purpose of them. Not being shut down and not losing the money source. And so we arrived on the island in Washington state.[00:32:00] 

Doing our explanation of the island. I was

very fortunate to have found. A way out which was in the form of a kayak.

Unfortunately, the staff took my shoes with,

so I had, how long were you, were you on this island? Like they, you arrive at the island. Was it the same day they took your shoes away. And you saw the kayak or was, were you there a few days? How long were you walking around barefoot? [00:33:00] So they took my shoes away. The, on the day we arrived on the island, I found the kayak on the same day.

And I waited until like 2:00 AM. The next day. And I kayaked off the island to Seattle. I went to the police. I told them everything. And that's how the, the school got shut. In getting in a kayak at 2:00 AM in the pitch black night, no shoes. How often have you kayaked in your life be at that point?

honestly that, [00:34:00] that was my first time. Yeah. You're kayaking in the ocean, which is freezing cold. And it's your first time in the middle of the night. So how did you navigate and find your way? So. The island was super close to Seattle. And it, it was a lot of stars out. And so I believe.

I'm, I'm not a religious person. But I, I believe that God was helping me escape a hundred percent. I have no [00:35:00] doubts. I have no doubt. So

talk about that. So you get in this kayak, it's 2:00 AM. You paddle yourself to Seattle. And what happens when you get to Seattle? Sean? When I got to Seattle, I had no idea where the, where the police station was. However I did, I did see a highway. And so I immediately went to the highway and.

I pretended like I was a cheerleader in, in hopes that someone would call the police and someone did call the police, the police arrived, they question me and [00:36:00] I told them everything. they confirmed my story with their sources and that's how the tool got so done. Now were any of the people that, that absolutely they was, that was a form of torture.

Were the people. Tortured you and were being paid to do it. Did any of them go to prison or face jail time? They did. They disappeared. They disappeared. Yeah. Scumbag. Okay. I agree. Okay, so now your story doesn't end. You're at this place for a year and a half. You walking outside of an an island outside of Seattle.

God [00:37:00] leaves a kayak for you. You get in, you take it to Seattle. You find the police by cheerleading on the side of the highway, which is one of the busiest highways in the us. And then from there, you finally. Have the police listening to you, they confirm what you're saying. And what was it like that night at the police station?

My adrenaline, what? It was super high. I was sweating even though it was really cold. I my hands were, was shaking. The, hold on. So when

you're at the police station, how [00:38:00] long were you at the police station? I slept the night there until my mom arrived from new New Jersey to, to, to get me I, I was told that she took upon. Okay, so your mom. Flew out. And she's there with you now. Were your mom and dad together at that point or had they, they separated?

No, they separated. Okay. So your mom was still in New Jersey and your dad was in California at the time? Yeah. Okay. Now, did any of them visit you in the year and a half? You were in Klamath falls, Oregon at this terrible place. They did. Yeah. And when they were there, they didn't see anything wrong [00:39:00] or any kind of abuse.

The

when my PI, when my parents visited me the. The students and the teachers were all on their best behavior.

And did they give you a bed to sleep in while your parents

were there?

Sean, can you. Say say that again. I said, when your parents were there visiting, did they give you a bed to sleep in? Or how did that work? They did. Yes. Yeah. And then when your parents would leave, they'd take it away. Yep. [00:40:00] Horrible. Horrible. Okay. So now you're back with your mom. You're in Seattle at the police station.

Where does your story go from there? So from there I go back to new New Jersey. And

I find out a couple months later that the owner of the school. At the time her N name is Bobby Christensen. But she had a very symbol ending. [00:41:00] And California she used shown a summer camp. In California. At that time her name was Bobby try. But the, the summer camp had a couple of deaths to a couple of people died at the summer camp.

So it got shut down. And she moved. From California

to Oregon, she changed her name and opened a boarding order. I [00:42:00] didn't find that out until after I left this school.

So now you're with your mom in New Jersey. And where does your life go from there? How long were you with your mom before you made the next move? I was with my mom for four to six months, I think. Okay. And was that nice having time to be safe and in your own bed? It was I, I was super happy and, and, and super at pace.

I was excited. Okay. And then, Now you're with your mom, but she's divorced her, your dad and her had [00:43:00] divorced. So what brings this next boarding school into play after you've been abused so badly at two others, they wanted, wanted to try just one more time.

Okay. And where do you go from there? I think you said Michigan. Yes in Michigan. And, and what happens when you arrive in Michigan? I

run away again. This time I go from Michigan to California. However, I, I. I did give the school in Michigan at eight, eight chance. I was there for [00:44:00] about nine months, I think. And the people in Michigan. At the school was very nice and kind they treated me well. It's just that I didn't wanna be away from home anymore. Understandable understandable. So where did you, where did you go from there and how did you get there? So I went out to people and I put, and I said, I represent the red cross and we are seeking [00:45:00] donations.

And I used that money to pay for a bus ticket. So I could get to where my dad was again. And how old were you at this point in the story between 16 and 19, between 16 and 19, and you raise money. You're like I'm with the red cross taking donations, you get enough money, you get the plane ticket, you go to California.

And what happens when you get to California? When I get to California at, at my dash apartment My dad wasn't there at the time. And the door was locked, so I went through the window [00:46:00] and I, I was super hungry. And so I, he, I Heated up some food. I, I sat on the couch, turned down the TV and that's the, that's when my dad and set came in to, to find me doing those things.

And what was the reaction when they saw you? They thought you're in Michigan. What was that like? They were super supplies, obviously. Their reaction was disbelief. [00:47:00] And then, so now you're there. Yeah. What happens at that point? What did you guys decide on? They put me And a school and the, the same town as, as, as, as, as they were. Okay. Yeah. And are you still there or how? That was a long time ago, but so you, they put you in a school in the same town they were.

And then where do you go from there?

I'm still in California to this day. Oh, okay. Are you with your dad? Are you at the school? Where are you at? I'm right now I have a roommate. Okay. So you have your own place with a roommate? Yeah. Yep. [00:48:00] Very nice. But the important part is, is that it's in California, where. Where my, where my dad is. And also my mom lives in California as well.

Oh, your mom moved to California. Very nice. Yeah. So you get to see them much more often now, correct? Correct. Good. So today you're in California, you have your own place. What's Sean's life like. And where are you headed? My friend. What's your, what's your purpose? What's your plan? Where are you going? That's a good push currently.

I'm I have my own nonprofit.

The name of my nonprofit is I.

No autism foundation. [00:49:00] And the mission of a nonprofit is to inspire people with disabilities, mental health, soldiers, and diseases by giving memorable speeches at hospitals. At schools at events and so on.

Excellent. If someone wanted to learn more about your nonprofit or maybe even support you, what's the best place for them to go. Is there a website? Is there an email address? I'm fortunate enough to have a website. And so the. U O L of my website is I [00:50:00] know autism.org.

So I know autism.org and I'll put a link to the show notes to that site for, to people can click. Thank you. Well, Sean, you truly have had a remarkable journey. You're 35 years young now, right? You're about 35. You said? Yeah. And where are you going? And how can we, as the listeners help you get there? I'm trying to write a book.

That, that talks about my story. However, I, at the time of [00:51:00] this interview, I don't have the funds to, to. To pay for a ghost. And so I'm trying to

seek financial assistance for. That purpose to write a, a, to have a, a book written about my story. I,

do you have suggestions? [00:52:00] Yeah. What, what we'll do is again, I'll put a link to your website. In the show notes so people can check it out and donate if they can. And then off camera, I know a couple people who do ghost writing and we'll see if we can kind of connect you to and see what comes of that. And I'm guessing a great name for the book would be the kayak.

Right? What were you thinking for a title? I would totally agree. That's that was my idea as well. Yeah. That kayak, like you said, God just put it there. Most people flip over in a kayak on a, on a lake, let alone in the ocean in the middle of the night with no experience. So that is so cool that God used that to help free you and Sean, you truly are a remarkable man.

I'm I'm proud to be your friend and thankful to have you on the show. Between your birth and today, is there anything else we missed or didn't talk about or any kind of special message you wanna share with our audience [00:53:00] before we close up for the day? The main message that I want to give to the listeners as

to.

Never give up, never give in and never surrender to difficult situations instead, make the difficult situations, give up, give , give in and surrender, surrender to you. There's a poem titled that don't quit poem that I really try to live by. [00:54:00] The poem I think is I. Don't have access to it right now.

But you and the listeners can find it online. If, if you're interested yeah, I'll put a link to that. I'll try to find it. And if I can, I'll contact you and you can send it to me. And I'll put a link in the show notes to that as well. Okay. Good. All right, Sean. Well, thank you my friend for being on this show today and to our listeners around the world, we hope this episode help inspire you and motivate you.

And like Sean said, never quit. Never give up. Never surrender, always keep moving forward. And like our slogan to the show says, don't just listen to this great content that you heard today from Sean, but [00:55:00] apply. Do the parts. That you need in your life. Repeat it each day. So you can have a great life in this world and more importantly, in the attorney to come.

So I'm David Paco alone. This was Sean Sullivan, and we hope to see you again next week at the remarkable people podcast. Sean, thank you again for being here today, brother. Well, course I, I, I, it. A pleasure to talk to you. And I hope that we can keep in contact after the show as well. Ah, absolutely. My friend, absolutely.

So I'm gonna, we're gonna close this episode, our listeners, please like this, share it. Let other people use it for hope as well. And we'll see you in the next episode and Sean, you and I will be talking soon. C excellent.

 the remarkable people podcast, [00:56:00] check it out.

The remarkable people podcast. Listen, do repeat for a Pete for life.